[R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists

Mon Sep 13 12:12:30 MDT 2010

Then do so already. We don't need self-righteous people.
	Dumb-ass Dean.
PS: For everybody else, i never heard of Ted Olsen's call until Mark,  
the anointed and brilliant, mentioned it here. Mark says he doesn't  
believe anything anybody in the government says, and yet here he is  
quoting and believing the FBI.
On Sep 13, 2010, at 12:25 AM, Mark E. Smith wrote:

> Don't bother, aaron. You can count me out. I've known illiterate  
> peasants in
> fourth world countries who were intelligent, socially conscious,  
> and capable
> of critical thinking and reasoned argument. That's why their  
> revolutions
> were successful. The chances of people who are highly educated, but  
> not
> intelligent, not socially conscious, and not capable of critical  
> thinking or
> reasoned argument, pulling off a successful revolution are nil.
>
> They won't know what they want, they won't know why they want it,  
> they won't
> know who to rebel against, and they won't know how. People like  
> that are
> capable of riots and capable of violence, but not capable of  
> ousting an
> oligarchy and establishing a democratic form of government. When their
> revolutions happen to succeed in spite of them, the result is a  
> worse system
> than they had previously.
>
> In Venezuela, everyone knew what they wanted, who the enemy was,  
> and what to
> do. They knew what they needed in a new Constitution to establish a
> democratic form of government because they had discussed it. All of  
> them. In
> mud huts in remote villages, in city ghettos, they knew every  
> detail of how
> their oligarchy was exploiting them and lying to them, why it had  
> to be
> ousted, and what to replace it with.
>
> All that, and most of them had never been to school, never had a  
> "real job"
> and just worked in the fields or fished, or, in the case of the urban
> ghettos, were locked out of the job market due to the color of  
> their skin.
>
> But they were smart enough not to have faith in the oligarchy that was
> exploiting them and lying to them, and not to believe what the  
> media and the
> government disinformation agents tried to tell them.
>
> Apart from the coordinator and the moderator, most of the people  
> posting to
> this list buy anything the government says hook, line, and sinker,  
> and don't
> want to discuss it.
>
> I'm not letting provocateurs con me into reckless, thoughtless,  
> futile acts.
> Anyone who can be fooled by the enemy into believing the enemy's  
> lies, or
> tricked into doing the enemy's dirty deeds, isn't revolutionary  
> material.
>
> Who you going to rebel against, aaron, Arabs with box-cutters? The  
> people
> who tricked those imaginary Arabs with box-cutters into drinking  
> booze at a
> strip club to prove what religious zealots they were? The people  
> who tell
> you that the Arabs with box-cutters performed aviation maneuvers that
> experienced pilots say are impossible for those particular  
> aircraft? You're
> really going to rebel against people you trust and have faith in no  
> matter
> how obvious their lies are, because you're sure they wouldn't lie  
> to you?
>
> I'm lumping you, dean, Gary, and Razer in together here, aaron. Not  
> all of
> you have the same views, but you all (correct me if I'm wrong)  
> believe the
> Arabs with box-cutters story. Why? Because Ted Olsen said his wife  
> Barbara
> was on the plane and had phoned him to tell him that the hijackers  
> were
> Arabs with box-cutters, and by the time he admitted that he had  
> lied and the
> FBI confirmed that there had been no such phone calls, you already  
> believed
> it and nothing was going to change your minds. There has never been  
> any
> credible evidence for the Arabs with box-cutters story. None.
>
> So I'm not joining your revolution. I don't believe in the  
> imaginary Arabs
> with box-cutters any more than I believe in Santa Claus, the Easter  
> Bunny,
> or the tooth fairy. People who will believe something when there is no
> supporting evidence whatsoever, just because they want to, or  
> because people
> they say are their enemies told them so, aren't revolutionaries,  
> they're
> dumbasses or provocateurs.
>
> And unless somebody intelligent chimes in (besides Macdonald and  
> Suzanne),
> I'm going to quit wasting my time with this little circle jerk.
>
> --Mark
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:44 PM, aaron doncaster
> <aaron.doncaster at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Guess who's missing the revolution!!!just kidding it hasn't  
>> happened yet
>> but
>> when it does, I am sure you still be debating this topic so I will  
>> come and
>> see if you want to join!!
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Razer <auntieimperial at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/12/2010 4:22 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
>>>> To the contrary, Razer. We know the WHY of 9/11. It was to justify
>>>> an otherwise unjustifiable war.
>>>>
>>>> But the WHO makes all the difference in the world.
>>>>
>>>> If it was terrorists who wanted to start the war, then the war
>>>> could, at least in some minds, be justified.
>>>>
>>>> If it was the highest levels of our own government that wanted to
>>>> start the war by killing Americans and blaming it on terrorists,
>>>> the war is justified in nobody's mind but their own.
>>>>
>>>> In other words it is quite a different thing if bin Laden did it
>>>> than if Bush did it. I think the music
>>>> video<
>>>
>> http://auntieimperial.blogspot.com/2010/09/this-september-11th-get- 
>> clue-theres.html
>>>> by
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Immortal Technique and Mos Def that you linked makes an important
>>>> political statement. Check the lyrics. "Bush knocked down the
>>>> towers," is talking about WHO was behind 9/11. But if you think
>>>> that video is just a "personality oriented obsessive sidetrack,"
>>>> why did you post the link, bro? Just looking for street creds?
>>>>
>>>> --Mark
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Razer <auntieimperial at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MY point being no one told Osama bin Laden what to do. It doesn't  
>>> work
>>> like that.
>>>
>>> The lyrics are about the "WHO", but not in the way most would
>>> understand it.
>>>
>>> WHO 'set it up to happen like it happened.'
>>>
>>> "The MAN" set it up to happen like it happened.
>>>
>>> It's not WHO did anything. If anything it's about willful negligence
>>> leading to the circumstances that would surely follow  
>>> immediately, or
>>> year later. No matter.
>>>
>>> ... and there's a history that goes back, way back, before BushBoy,
>>> that would create a scenario where a group of people,
>>> disenfranchised, culturally in the process of destruction or
>>> assimilation, would finally get enough pissed off to allow a CIA
>>> operative like UBL to convince them such a thing should be done.
>>>
>>> Marshall McLuhan in the 60s discussing who a 'terrorist is' here (at
>>> the end of the 3 minute music clip):
>>> http://www.upload-mp3.com/files/227258_o2qz8/McLuhan_Adbusters.mp3
>>>
>>> That's from Live Without Dead Time Adbusters compilation mixed by Dj
>>> Spooky
>>>
>>>
>> http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/240/Live-Without-Dead-Time-- 
>> adbusters-compilation--mixed-by-Dj-Spooky
>>>
>>> Leigh
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/11/2010 10:04 PM, aaron doncaster wrote:
>>>>>>> The sad tale of this issue, is that it diverts so much time
>>>>>>> resources and energy away from confronting imperialism.
>>>>>>> maybe there are provocateurs on both sides of the debate who
>>>>>>> stoke the fires thereby raising peoples emotional response
>>>>>>> beyond what they can take which can cause burnout or an
>>>>>>> obsessive need to prove your argument, all the wile, the
>>>>>>> troops are still in Afghanistan and Iraq.
>>>> I'm Razer, and I approve of this message.
>>>>
>>>> Further... IMHO, WHO has just about absofucknglutely nothing to do
>>>> with it except as a personality oriented obsessive sidetrack.
>>>>
>>>> WHY? is the only question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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