[R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists (but traditional conformists)

[Mark E. Smith]

Okay, since you've apologized for saying 9/11 Truth is a joke, Gary, I'll
apologize for calling people who support the government's cover-up scum.
Some may just be misguided.

As for Bush not being a genius, you don't have to be a genius when you have
professional conspiracy theorists like the Project for a New American
Century (PNAC) and the CIA advising you.

That's what those organizations do for a living, devise conspiracies and
plan covert operations. They get together in groups, make plans to do
illegal things, and then either try to get Presidential approval, carry out
their plans themselves, or pay the Mafia or some other criminal group to do
it for them. People who secretly conspire together to do illegal things, the
way that PNAC and the CIA do, are conspirators. The details of their plots,
plans, and schemes are theories for carrying out their conspiracies, so they
are professional conspiracy theorists.

Calling those who expose them conspiracy theorists isn't technically
correct, as we do not dream up illegal plans and plots, we merely expose the
conspiracies that the professional conspirators devise and carry out with or
without the knowledge and consent of Presidents. They're the conspiracy
theorists, and researchers who expose them are researchers. If an illegal
act happens to be in keeping with and will further a President's agenda,
then the President is likely to approve and authorize it. But the President
doesn't have to devise the plan and draw up the details--there are plenty of
intelligence agencies and think tanks (professional conspiracy theorists) to
do that.

Unless you deny the existence of PNAC, the CIA, and other agencies in the
business of drawing up secret plans for illegal acts, you can't deny that
our government has a great need for the work of professional conspiracy
theorists, that many agencies engaged in such work have become permanent or
semi-permanent, and that large amount of taxpayer money are budgeted to pay
for their services (in addition to any private or "black" budgets they may
have). Lately many government contracts for professional conspiracy theories
have been given to private military corporations like Blackwater/Xe or MPRI
rather than being done in-house by the CIA, NSA, NIS, or other alphabet
agencies. In almost every case the actual work is classified so that
taxpayers don't know what conspiracy theories we're paying for.

A handful of Members of Congress are allowed access to those secrets, but
they are forbidden from disclosing what they learn to their colleagues, no
less their constituents, so even if they learn that the government has done
or is planning to do something illegal that will hurt the country and hurt
Americans, they can't disclose it without going to prison. Most Members of
Congress have family, health, career, or other personal reasons for not
wishing to go to prison, and many of them obviously do not have the welfare
of their country or of their constituents at heart in the first place. Those
who might, don't get trusted with secrets and those who have a change of
heart are easily discredited or eliminated.

--Mark



On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Gary Crethers <garyrumor2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It seems that I have stirred up a little controversy here. There certainly
> are
> some rigidly held positions on some people's part. This name calling gets
> us
> nowhere and I have been through this debate over 9-11 before. I am no
> apologist
> for George Bush. Just because I think the case for Al Qaeda being
> responsible
> for 9-11 is more likely than there being a cabal within the US government
> responsible, does not make me a scum, a Bush supporter or a right winger. I
> will
> agree that ultimately the US policies in helping to create the mujahideen
> resistance to the Soviets in Afghanistan is partly responsible for 9/11
> along
> with US troops being sent to Saudi Arabia and the ongoing support for
> Israel
> among other reasons. I agree with much of the chickens coming home to roost
> theory as proposed by Ward Churchill. I also find Chalmers Johnson's theory
> of
> Blowback to be credible. I do think things are more complex than anyone of
> the
> existing theories suggest. I would like to see a whistle blower come out
> and say
> that they were in on a conspiracy to blow up the world trade center. That
> would
> make the 9/11 conspiracy theory more creditable. Right now I consider it to
> be
> on the same level as claims that Roosevelt was in on the Japanese attack on
> Pearl Harbor, interesting but I tend to go by Occam's Razor in these
> things.
>
>       It was convenient for the Bush administration who used the 9/11
> attack to
> push through the Patriot Act which was based upon Clinton's anti-terrorist
> legislation, as well as justify an invasion of both Afghanistan and Iraq.
> We are
> still living with the legacy of those assaults. But to claim that Bush was
> in on
> the attack is basically giving that gang more credit than they deserve.
> Remember
> this is George Bush we are talking about here, not Dick Nixon. Dick was
> smart
> and got caught. George must be a super genius to get away with such a
> massive
> operation. Bush is a war criminal for invading Iraq on false pretenses and
> for
> allowing the torture of prisoners, to name two reasons for bringing him up
> on
> charges.
>
>    As for the 9/11 attack being caused by Bush and/or a secret cabal of US
> warmongers, I just don't give them that much credit. But then there are
> those
> who think the US has been run by a secret cabal at least since the Kennedy
> assassination. Some claim that was a coup d'etat. I do find the evidence of
> mistakes and cover ups of these mistakes by the FBI in protecting the USA
> from
> attack to be damning as in the case of Sibel Edmonds. I am not convinced
> that
> this means there was a conspiracy as much as it is evidence of
> incompetence.
>
>    Since Obama will not allow charges to be brought up against Bush, mostly
> it
> seems because he is still pursuing certain of the Bush policies, there is
> unlikely to be a courtroom evidentiary hearing unless someone brings
> charges at
> the International Court of Justice.
>
>    I don't consider serious research to be a joke. I was being
> disrespectful
> for that I do appoligise but I expect the same from those who called me a
> scum.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Justice_of_Roosting_Chickens
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzuOOshpddM
> http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96may/blowback.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA-Osama_bin_Laden_controversy
>   I don't drink much anymore myself, but I sure have had my share of drinks
> and
> snorts, mostly with fellow human beings, even with dogmatists from time to
> time.
>
>
>
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1889/did-roosevelt-know-in-advance-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-yet-say-nothing
>
>
> http://michiganmessenger.com/38487/bush-admits-to-war-crimes-in-grand-rapids-speech
>
>
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bush_Administration_War_Crimes_in_Iraq
>
> http://www.wanttoknow.info/sibeledmondsnewsarticles
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark E. Smith <mymark at gmail.com>
> To: garyrumor2 at yahoo.com
> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 10:24:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists (but traditional
> conformists)
>
> I don't drink, Gary. George Bush is the guy you want to have a drink with,
> or maybe snort some blow with. Your kind of people. He even agrees with you
> about 9/11.
>
> --Mark
>
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Gary Crethers <garyrumor2 at yahoo.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I guess if we disagree with Mark we are scum. Sure wouldn't want to have
> a
> > drink
> > with this guy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Mark E. Smith <mymark at gmail.com>
> > To: garyrumor2 at yahoo.com
> > Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 1:24:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists (but traditional
> > conformists)
> >
> > By claiming that Arabs with box-cutters did it, our government is
> > encouraging violent revolution?
> >
> > Our imperialist government has a long history of encouraging and funding
> > violent revolution. That's one of the many ways they create a market for
> > weapons. False-flag operations are another way. When you're one of the
> > world's biggest arms dealers, you have to keep creating a demand for your
> > product.
> >
> > 9/11 was a minor variation on the plans laid out in Operation
> > Northwoods<http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1>and signed
> > off on by the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff as a false-flag
> > operation to be used as an excuse to invade Cuba. JFK vetoed it, so PNAC
> > had
> > to temporarily shelve the plan and wait until they had a more compliant
> > President, and by then the target was Iraq, as Cuba didn't have any oil.
> >
> > Scum, in my book, are those who defend capitalism, imperialism, and
> > environmental destruction, defend the purveyors of capitalism,
> imperialism,
> > and environmental destruction, and use every psy-ops technique in the
> > KUBARK
> > manual and then some to try to smear, discredit, isolate, and ridicule
> > anyone who confronts and exposes the lies of capitalism, imperialism, and
> > environmental destruction. If the shoe fits, wear it.
> >
> > A friend of mine in Caracas, Venezuela, says that he always laughs at
> > tourists who go there expecting to see bearded Che Guevara types with
> > rifles
> > running up and down the streets and are oblivious to the real Bolivarian
> > revolution, which consists of neighborhood health clinics, improved
> > schools,
> > housing for the poor, worker-owned collectives, and other quiet,
> > nonviolent,
> > but nonetheless truly revolutionary accomplishments taking place right in
> > front of them.
> >
> > The United States has been in the genocide-for-profit industry since the
> > European illegal aliens who invaded Turtle Island decided to form a
> > government, and has never seen any reason to abandon such a successful
> > business plan. Few empires ever have.  Most don't fall due to violent or
> > nonviolent revolution, but by overextending themselves in their
> insatiable
> > need for constant acquisition.
> >
> > In many ways the process is comparable to that of any ecologically
> > nonviable
> > species that undergoes an ever increasing overpopulation/die-off cycle
> > until
> > it eventually suffocates in its own wastes and becomes extinct.
> >
> > Uncontrolled growth is called cancer in the health care industry, and it
> > works the same way in any other industry. While malignancy can be
> difficult
> > to cure, it is easy to prevent. All it takes is respect. Respect for
> > others,
> > respect for life, and respect for the habitat. Domesticating people as if
> > we
> > were cattle is not "development," and turning living things into dead
> > things
> > is not "progress." Natural and living things have inherent value until
> they
> > are turned into commodities and have only artificial value. Inherent
> values
> > endure, as witness the wisdom of slaves still taught centuries after the
> > civilizations that enslaved them have fallen. Synthetic values are
> > ephemeral.
> >
> > I was the one who fell for Gary's "9-11 truth out is a joke,"  baiting,
> and
> > I apologize. My bad.
> >
> > --Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:54 PM, dean tuckerman <deanosor at mailup.net
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > I have several questions and comments about your last two posts. i'm
> > > unclear who you're calling "scum". Explain. I hope is wasn't Gary or
> me.
> > >
> > > Do you not realize that it could be the 9-11 Truth people who are
> > > upholding the system, by saying the government and the powers-that-be
> > > (the rich white guys at the top) are so powerful   that they even
> > > plan their own attacks, that arabs with box-cutters could not have
> > > carried out this attack on the capital and the Pentagon, and
> > > therefore it is basically futile to revolt?
> > >
> > > On Sep 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nah, I just got drawn into trying to debate the scum on their own
> > > > terms.
> > > >
> > > > I have a friend, an American expatriate and an open Communist, who
> > > > works for
> > > > a big hi-tech multinational in Europe as an internet backbone
> > > > specialist
> > > > with corporations, governments, and intelligence agencies as
> > > > clients. He
> > > > never got past high school, and they've been trying for decades to
> > > > replace
> > > > him with somebody who has a degree but they can't find anyone
> > > > competent
> > > > enough to take his place.
> > > >
> > > > Top respect, Leigh.
> > > >
> > > > --Mark
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Razer <auntieimperial at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > >> Hash: SHA1
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 9/11/2010 3:42 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> > > >>> On the other hand, if you take a look at those who pooh-pooh the
> > > >> research of
> > > >>> professionals and attempt to smear and discredit them, you won't
> > > >>> find a
> > > >>> single resumé worthy of a Wal-Mart greeter,
> > > >>
> > > >> That's a pretty arrogant statement about the intelligence of the
> > > >> proletariat. You must be indoctrinated into one of those
> > > >> 'vanguard' orgs.
> > > >>
> > > >> Listen... the average 'uneducated' foundry worker knows more about
> > > >> structural steel that the wannabe with a PHD in SHEET METAL FOR THE
> > > >> COMPUTER INDUSTRY who is so amply cited by the 9-11 'truthers', and
> > > >> don't EVER forget it!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> or an I.Q. that could even
> > > >>> qualify for Mensa, no less the many high-I.Q. clubs with stiffer
> > > >>> requirements.
> > > >>
> > > >> Fuck IQs... They prove nothing except the abiity to conform to some
> > > >> arbitrary standard.... In industrial societies, the ability to
> > > >> conform
> > > >> to a particularly arbitrary logical standard that makes one a 'good
> > > >> reliable worker'.
> > > >>
> > > >> That means conform to your cohort at all costs.
> > > >>
> > > >> Guess what that means for the 'truth'?
> > > >>
> > > >> Here's MY take:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://auntieimperial.blogspot.com/2010/09/this-september-11th-get-
> > > >> clue-theres.html
> > > >>
> > > >> Leigh
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --Mark
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Sid Shniad <shniad at gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> *Not traditional conspiracy theorists:
> > > >>>> *
> > > >>>> *
> > > >>>> http://www.militaryofficersfor911truth.org/#signatories* *
> > > >>>> *
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
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