[R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists (but traditional conformists)

[Mark E. Smith]

If by "that last part" you meant the link to Dave's blog, how does that show
that I'm "a mean person?"

If you meant the paragraph before that, where I accused you of wasting my
time and everyone else's with disruptive, disrespectful, and divisive posts,
I don't think that I'm being mean by pointing out that disruptive,
disrespectful, divisive, illogical, uninformative posts that are totally
devoid of content, are a waste of time.

Would you care to point me to something in your last few posts that you feel
is constructive, informative, and a valuable contribution to this list? I'm
only human and I may have missed something.

I think asking me what KUBARK is instead of googling it is mean, as I know
darned well that anyone who can post here is capable of doing their own
googling. And after taking advantage of my kindness, courtesy, and
consideration by asking me to do your googling for you, which I did, instead
of thanking me, you insult me and say that I'm mean.

George Bush admitted that Sadaam Hussein and Iraq had no connection to 9/11.
He never actually admitted that Iraq had no WMDs, but he joked about it, so
he knew it was a joke, and other evidence has come to light proving that the
intelligence was fixed to justify the invasion of Iraq. Afghanistan had
nothing to do with 9/11 either. When our government learned that Osama bin
Laden was in Afghanistan as a guest of the Taliban, our government sent the
Taliban who were hosting bin Laden $42 million dollars--just a few months
before 9/11 at a time when bin Laden was already on our terrorist list. The
Afghan government couldn't have given bin Laden $42 million dollars because
the Afghan governnment didn't have $42 million dollars. Immediately after
9/'11 Bush said that finding bin Laden was his highest priority. Either he
was lying or he changed his mind because a few months later he flip-flopped
and said that finding bin Laden wasn't a priority at all.

You don't think that killing over a million innocent people in wars of
aggression based on lies is mean, but you think that anyone who questions
those lies is mean?

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were acts of imperialism. They were
based on lies. Anyone who opposes and wishes to confront imperialism,
wouldn't object to exposing those lies, wouldn't try to mock and ridicule
those who have expended great efforts and put their reputations on the line
to expose those lies, and wouldn't try to disrupt or suppress discussion of
those lies.

--Mark







On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 3:34 AM, dean tuckerman <deanosor at mailup.net> wrote:

> I was going to answer you, but that last part shows that you are just
> a mean person, so what's the point. I guess the feeling is mutual.
> On Sep 12, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
>
> > Perhaps Gary wasn't baiting me personally, Dean, although it
> > appeared to be
> > in response to either my post or Macdonald's, but he was certainly
> > being
> > disrespectful.
> >
> > It isn't "my" false flag theory, but yes, I think that anyone who
> > believes,
> > pretends to believe, or encourages others to believe that the laws of
> > physics failed on 9/11 is scum or a dupe. Good anti-imperialists and
> > environmentalists, evil imperialists and anti-environmentalists,
> > and anyone
> > else who wants to discuss such matters, either agree that jet fuel
> > can't
> > burn at a much higher temperature than that at which jet fuel can
> > burn, and
> > that steel and concrete can't melt at a much lower temperature than
> > that at
> > which steel and concrete can melt, or else they are incapable of
> > rational
> > discussion because they're totally out of touch with reality. If
> > you want to
> > believe that you can produce ice cubes for your lemonade by heating
> > water on
> > the stove, you're certainly entitled to your belief, whether you
> > support or
> > oppose imperialism, but you're never going to get any ice cubes
> > that way.
> > Specific fuels have specific temperature ranges and can burn
> > somewhat hotter
> > under certain circumstances, but if you want enormously higher
> > temperatures,
> > as in the molten steel that continued burning under the WTC for
> > months after
> > 9/11, you have to use different fuels. Specific materials have
> > freezing
> > points, melting points, etc., and these don't vary by the huge
> > discrepancies
> > necessitated by the NIST report. Jet fuel is basically kerosene, it
> > burns
> > out quickly, it does not burn at 3,000 degrees, and it could not
> > continue to
> > do so for months, although certain other chemicals, such as thermite
> > certainly could.
> >
> > The KUBARK manual was an old psychological warfare manual.
> >
> > http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB27/01-01.htm
> >
> > I expect you to thank me for doing your googling for you, but I
> > will not do
> > it again. Anyone incapable of performing a simple search should not be
> > posting to a mailing list.
> >
> > What I said about Venezuela was in response to your convoluted and
> > illogical
> > allegation that Truthers were "upholding the system" and somehow
> > implying
> > that revolt was futile, which contained the implication that all
> > revolt has
> > to be violent.
> >
> > As for what my first sentence meant, you seem to have forgotten
> > what you
> > wrote, so I'll copy it for you to refresh your memory:
> >
> > "Do you not realize that it could be the 9-11 Truth people who are
> > upholding the system, by saying the government and the powers-that-be
> > (the rich white guys at the top) are so powerful   that they even
> > plan their own attacks, that arabs with box-cutters could not have
> > carried out this attack on the capital and the Pentagon, and
> > therefore it is basically futile to revolt?"
> >
> > If you think that those who dispute the Arabs with box-cutters
> > theory are
> > upholding the system and discouraging revolution, then you must
> > think that
> > those who proposed and support the Arabs with box-cutter theory,
> > primarily
> > elements of the U.S. government, are opposing their own system and
> > encouraging revolution.
> >
> > But in truth, I don't think you're actually capable of logical
> > reasoning. I
> > think you were just being disruptive, disrespectful, and divisive,
> > and your
> > intention was to waste my time and everyone else's.
> >
> > Not that you'll look at it, but my friend Dave Griscom posted a
> > pretty good
> > 9/11 piece to his blog yesterday and it has some excellent links:
> >
> > http://impactglassman.blogspot.com/2010/09/911-truth-evidence-of-
> > energetic.html
> >
> > --Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 2:23 AM, dean tuckerman
> > <deanosor at mailup.net> wrote:
> >
> >> 1st of all, i don't believe Gary was baiting you.  He was stating his
> >> opinion of the situation. Secondly. Do you believe that everyone who
> >> doesn't believe in your false flag theory is scum or at least dupes
> >> of scum? Can't good anti-imperialists and environmentalists disagree?
> >> 3rd, What is the Kubark Manual?
> >> 4th, What does what your friend says about Venezuela have to do with
> >> this conversation. Yes there are good things happening in Venezuela,
> >> and they're mainly non-violent, So?
> >> 5th, What does your first sentence mean? I don't understand why the
> >> statement (which i think i don't agree with) is a question. Also
> >> claiming is a funny word there.
> >> On Sep 12, 2010, at 1:24 AM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> By claiming that Arabs with box-cutters did it, our government is
> >>> encouraging violent revolution?
> >>>
> >>> Our imperialist government has a long history of encouraging and
> >>> funding
> >>> violent revolution. That's one of the many ways they create a
> >>> market for
> >>> weapons. False-flag operations are another way. When you're one
> >>> of the
> >>> world's biggest arms dealers, you have to keep creating a demand
> >>> for your
> >>> product.
> >>>
> >>> 9/11 was a minor variation on the plans laid out in Operation
> >>> Northwoods<http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1>and signed
> >>> off on by the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff as a false-flag
> >>> operation to be used as an excuse to invade Cuba. JFK vetoed it, so
> >>> PNAC had
> >>> to temporarily shelve the plan and wait until they had a more
> >>> compliant
> >>> President, and by then the target was Iraq, as Cuba didn't have any
> >>> oil.
> >>>
> >>> Scum, in my book, are those who defend capitalism, imperialism, and
> >>> environmental destruction, defend the purveyors of capitalism,
> >>> imperialism,
> >>> and environmental destruction, and use every psy-ops technique in
> >>> the KUBARK
> >>> manual and then some to try to smear, discredit, isolate, and
> >>> ridicule
> >>> anyone who confronts and exposes the lies of capitalism,
> >>> imperialism, and
> >>> environmental destruction. If the shoe fits, wear it.
> >>>
> >>> A friend of mine in Caracas, Venezuela, says that he always
> >>> laughs at
> >>> tourists who go there expecting to see bearded Che Guevara types
> >>> with rifles
> >>> running up and down the streets and are oblivious to the real
> >>> Bolivarian
> >>> revolution, which consists of neighborhood health clinics, improved
> >>> schools,
> >>> housing for the poor, worker-owned collectives, and other quiet,
> >>> nonviolent,
> >>> but nonetheless truly revolutionary accomplishments taking place
> >>> right in
> >>> front of them.
> >>>
> >>> The United States has been in the genocide-for-profit industry
> >>> since the
> >>> European illegal aliens who invaded Turtle Island decided to form a
> >>> government, and has never seen any reason to abandon such a
> >>> successful
> >>> business plan. Few empires ever have.  Most don't fall due to
> >>> violent or
> >>> nonviolent revolution, but by overextending themselves in their
> >>> insatiable
> >>> need for constant acquisition.
> >>>
> >>> In many ways the process is comparable to that of any ecologically
> >>> nonviable
> >>> species that undergoes an ever increasing overpopulation/die-off
> >>> cycle until
> >>> it eventually suffocates in its own wastes and becomes extinct.
> >>>
> >>> Uncontrolled growth is called cancer in the health care industry,
> >>> and it
> >>> works the same way in any other industry. While malignancy can be
> >>> difficult
> >>> to cure, it is easy to prevent. All it takes is respect. Respect
> >>> for others,
> >>> respect for life, and respect for the habitat. Domesticating people
> >>> as if we
> >>> were cattle is not "development," and turning living things into
> >>> dead things
> >>> is not "progress." Natural and living things have inherent value
> >>> until they
> >>> are turned into commodities and have only artificial value.
> >>> Inherent values
> >>> endure, as witness the wisdom of slaves still taught centuries
> >>> after the
> >>> civilizations that enslaved them have fallen. Synthetic values are
> >>> ephemeral.
> >>>
> >>> I was the one who fell for Gary's "9-11 truth out is a joke,"
> >>> baiting, and
> >>> I apologize. My bad.
> >>>
> >>> --Mark
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:54 PM, dean tuckerman
> >>> <deanosor at mailup.net>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have several questions and comments about your last two posts.
> >>>> i'm
> >>>> unclear who you're calling "scum". Explain. I hope is wasn't Gary
> >>>> or me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you not realize that it could be the 9-11 Truth people who are
> >>>> upholding the system, by saying the government and the powers-
> >>>> that-be
> >>>> (the rich white guys at the top) are so powerful   that they even
> >>>> plan their own attacks, that arabs with box-cutters could not have
> >>>> carried out this attack on the capital and the Pentagon, and
> >>>> therefore it is basically futile to revolt?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Nah, I just got drawn into trying to debate the scum on their own
> >>>>> terms.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have a friend, an American expatriate and an open Communist, who
> >>>>> works for
> >>>>> a big hi-tech multinational in Europe as an internet backbone
> >>>>> specialist
> >>>>> with corporations, governments, and intelligence agencies as
> >>>>> clients. He
> >>>>> never got past high school, and they've been trying for decades to
> >>>>> replace
> >>>>> him with somebody who has a degree but they can't find anyone
> >>>>> competent
> >>>>> enough to take his place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Top respect, Leigh.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Razer <auntieimperial at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>>>>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 9/11/2010 3:42 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> >>>>>>> On the other hand, if you take a look at those who pooh-pooh the
> >>>>>> research of
> >>>>>>> professionals and attempt to smear and discredit them, you won't
> >>>>>>> find a
> >>>>>>> single resumé worthy of a Wal-Mart greeter,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's a pretty arrogant statement about the intelligence of the
> >>>>>> proletariat. You must be indoctrinated into one of those
> >>>>>> 'vanguard' orgs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Listen... the average 'uneducated' foundry worker knows more
> >>>>>> about
> >>>>>> structural steel that the wannabe with a PHD in SHEET METAL
> >>>>>> FOR THE
> >>>>>> COMPUTER INDUSTRY who is so amply cited by the 9-11
> >>>>>> 'truthers', and
> >>>>>> don't EVER forget it!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> or an I.Q. that could even
> >>>>>>> qualify for Mensa, no less the many high-I.Q. clubs with stiffer
> >>>>>>> requirements.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fuck IQs... They prove nothing except the abiity to conform to
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>>> arbitrary standard.... In industrial societies, the ability to
> >>>>>> conform
> >>>>>> to a particularly arbitrary logical standard that makes one a
> >>>>>> 'good
> >>>>>> reliable worker'.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That means conform to your cohort at all costs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Guess what that means for the 'truth'?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here's MY take:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://auntieimperial.blogspot.com/2010/09/this-september-11th-
> >>>>>> get-
> >>>>>> clue-theres.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Leigh
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Sid Shniad <shniad at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Not traditional conspiracy theorists:
> >>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>> http://www.militaryofficersfor911truth.org/#signatories* *
> >>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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