[R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists (but traditional conformists)

Mark E. Smith mymark at gmail.com
Sun Sep 12 04:23:45 MDT 2010


Perhaps Gary wasn't baiting me personally, Dean, although it appeared to be
in response to either my post or Macdonald's, but he was certainly being
disrespectful.

It isn't "my" false flag theory, but yes, I think that anyone who believes,
pretends to believe, or encourages others to believe that the laws of
physics failed on 9/11 is scum or a dupe. Good anti-imperialists and
environmentalists, evil imperialists and anti-environmentalists, and anyone
else who wants to discuss such matters, either agree that jet fuel can't
burn at a much higher temperature than that at which jet fuel can burn, and
that steel and concrete can't melt at a much lower temperature than that at
which steel and concrete can melt, or else they are incapable of rational
discussion because they're totally out of touch with reality. If you want to
believe that you can produce ice cubes for your lemonade by heating water on
the stove, you're certainly entitled to your belief, whether you support or
oppose imperialism, but you're never going to get any ice cubes that way.
Specific fuels have specific temperature ranges and can burn somewhat hotter
under certain circumstances, but if you want enormously higher temperatures,
as in the molten steel that continued burning under the WTC for months after
9/11, you have to use different fuels. Specific materials have freezing
points, melting points, etc., and these don't vary by the huge discrepancies
necessitated by the NIST report. Jet fuel is basically kerosene, it burns
out quickly, it does not burn at 3,000 degrees, and it could not continue to
do so for months, although certain other chemicals, such as thermite
certainly could.

The KUBARK manual was an old psychological warfare manual.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB27/01-01.htm

I expect you to thank me for doing your googling for you, but I will not do
it again. Anyone incapable of performing a simple search should not be
posting to a mailing list.

What I said about Venezuela was in response to your convoluted and illogical
allegation that Truthers were "upholding the system" and somehow implying
that revolt was futile, which contained the implication that all revolt has
to be violent.

As for what my first sentence meant, you seem to have forgotten what you
wrote, so I'll copy it for you to refresh your memory:

"Do you not realize that it could be the 9-11 Truth people who are
upholding the system, by saying the government and the powers-that-be
(the rich white guys at the top) are so powerful   that they even
plan their own attacks, that arabs with box-cutters could not have
carried out this attack on the capital and the Pentagon, and
therefore it is basically futile to revolt?"

If you think that those who dispute the Arabs with box-cutters theory are
upholding the system and discouraging revolution, then you must think that
those who proposed and support the Arabs with box-cutter theory, primarily
elements of the U.S. government, are opposing their own system and
encouraging revolution.

But in truth, I don't think you're actually capable of logical reasoning. I
think you were just being disruptive, disrespectful, and divisive, and your
intention was to waste my time and everyone else's.

Not that you'll look at it, but my friend Dave Griscom posted a pretty good
9/11 piece to his blog yesterday and it has some excellent links:

http://impactglassman.blogspot.com/2010/09/911-truth-evidence-of-energetic.html

--Mark






On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 2:23 AM, dean tuckerman <deanosor at mailup.net> wrote:

> 1st of all, i don't believe Gary was baiting you.  He was stating his
> opinion of the situation. Secondly. Do you believe that everyone who
> doesn't believe in your false flag theory is scum or at least dupes
> of scum? Can't good anti-imperialists and environmentalists disagree?
> 3rd, What is the Kubark Manual?
> 4th, What does what your friend says about Venezuela have to do with
> this conversation. Yes there are good things happening in Venezuela,
> and they're mainly non-violent, So?
> 5th, What does your first sentence mean? I don't understand why the
> statement (which i think i don't agree with) is a question. Also
> claiming is a funny word there.
> On Sep 12, 2010, at 1:24 AM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
>
> > By claiming that Arabs with box-cutters did it, our government is
> > encouraging violent revolution?
> >
> > Our imperialist government has a long history of encouraging and
> > funding
> > violent revolution. That's one of the many ways they create a
> > market for
> > weapons. False-flag operations are another way. When you're one of the
> > world's biggest arms dealers, you have to keep creating a demand
> > for your
> > product.
> >
> > 9/11 was a minor variation on the plans laid out in Operation
> > Northwoods<http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1>and signed
> > off on by the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff as a false-flag
> > operation to be used as an excuse to invade Cuba. JFK vetoed it, so
> > PNAC had
> > to temporarily shelve the plan and wait until they had a more
> > compliant
> > President, and by then the target was Iraq, as Cuba didn't have any
> > oil.
> >
> > Scum, in my book, are those who defend capitalism, imperialism, and
> > environmental destruction, defend the purveyors of capitalism,
> > imperialism,
> > and environmental destruction, and use every psy-ops technique in
> > the KUBARK
> > manual and then some to try to smear, discredit, isolate, and ridicule
> > anyone who confronts and exposes the lies of capitalism,
> > imperialism, and
> > environmental destruction. If the shoe fits, wear it.
> >
> > A friend of mine in Caracas, Venezuela, says that he always laughs at
> > tourists who go there expecting to see bearded Che Guevara types
> > with rifles
> > running up and down the streets and are oblivious to the real
> > Bolivarian
> > revolution, which consists of neighborhood health clinics, improved
> > schools,
> > housing for the poor, worker-owned collectives, and other quiet,
> > nonviolent,
> > but nonetheless truly revolutionary accomplishments taking place
> > right in
> > front of them.
> >
> > The United States has been in the genocide-for-profit industry
> > since the
> > European illegal aliens who invaded Turtle Island decided to form a
> > government, and has never seen any reason to abandon such a successful
> > business plan. Few empires ever have.  Most don't fall due to
> > violent or
> > nonviolent revolution, but by overextending themselves in their
> > insatiable
> > need for constant acquisition.
> >
> > In many ways the process is comparable to that of any ecologically
> > nonviable
> > species that undergoes an ever increasing overpopulation/die-off
> > cycle until
> > it eventually suffocates in its own wastes and becomes extinct.
> >
> > Uncontrolled growth is called cancer in the health care industry,
> > and it
> > works the same way in any other industry. While malignancy can be
> > difficult
> > to cure, it is easy to prevent. All it takes is respect. Respect
> > for others,
> > respect for life, and respect for the habitat. Domesticating people
> > as if we
> > were cattle is not "development," and turning living things into
> > dead things
> > is not "progress." Natural and living things have inherent value
> > until they
> > are turned into commodities and have only artificial value.
> > Inherent values
> > endure, as witness the wisdom of slaves still taught centuries
> > after the
> > civilizations that enslaved them have fallen. Synthetic values are
> > ephemeral.
> >
> > I was the one who fell for Gary's "9-11 truth out is a joke,"
> > baiting, and
> > I apologize. My bad.
> >
> > --Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:54 PM, dean tuckerman
> > <deanosor at mailup.net>wrote:
> >
> >> I have several questions and comments about your last two posts. i'm
> >> unclear who you're calling "scum". Explain. I hope is wasn't Gary
> >> or me.
> >>
> >> Do you not realize that it could be the 9-11 Truth people who are
> >> upholding the system, by saying the government and the powers-that-be
> >> (the rich white guys at the top) are so powerful   that they even
> >> plan their own attacks, that arabs with box-cutters could not have
> >> carried out this attack on the capital and the Pentagon, and
> >> therefore it is basically futile to revolt?
> >>
> >> On Sep 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> Nah, I just got drawn into trying to debate the scum on their own
> >>> terms.
> >>>
> >>> I have a friend, an American expatriate and an open Communist, who
> >>> works for
> >>> a big hi-tech multinational in Europe as an internet backbone
> >>> specialist
> >>> with corporations, governments, and intelligence agencies as
> >>> clients. He
> >>> never got past high school, and they've been trying for decades to
> >>> replace
> >>> him with somebody who has a degree but they can't find anyone
> >>> competent
> >>> enough to take his place.
> >>>
> >>> Top respect, Leigh.
> >>>
> >>> --Mark
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Razer <auntieimperial at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/11/2010 3:42 PM, Mark E. Smith wrote:
> >>>>> On the other hand, if you take a look at those who pooh-pooh the
> >>>> research of
> >>>>> professionals and attempt to smear and discredit them, you won't
> >>>>> find a
> >>>>> single resumé worthy of a Wal-Mart greeter,
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a pretty arrogant statement about the intelligence of the
> >>>> proletariat. You must be indoctrinated into one of those
> >>>> 'vanguard' orgs.
> >>>>
> >>>> Listen... the average 'uneducated' foundry worker knows more about
> >>>> structural steel that the wannabe with a PHD in SHEET METAL FOR THE
> >>>> COMPUTER INDUSTRY who is so amply cited by the 9-11 'truthers', and
> >>>> don't EVER forget it!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> or an I.Q. that could even
> >>>>> qualify for Mensa, no less the many high-I.Q. clubs with stiffer
> >>>>> requirements.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fuck IQs... They prove nothing except the abiity to conform to some
> >>>> arbitrary standard.... In industrial societies, the ability to
> >>>> conform
> >>>> to a particularly arbitrary logical standard that makes one a 'good
> >>>> reliable worker'.
> >>>>
> >>>> That means conform to your cohort at all costs.
> >>>>
> >>>> Guess what that means for the 'truth'?
> >>>>
> >>>> Here's MY take:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://auntieimperial.blogspot.com/2010/09/this-september-11th-get-
> >>>> clue-theres.html
> >>>>
> >>>> Leigh
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Sid Shniad <shniad at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> *Not traditional conspiracy theorists:
> >>>>>> *
> >>>>>> *
> >>>>>> http://www.militaryofficersfor911truth.org/#signatories* *
> >>>>>> *
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