[R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists

[Gary Crethers]

I refuse to be baited. I stand by my opinion and as a human being with a modicum 
of intelligence my academic credentials have nothing to do with my opinion. I 
don't ask anyone on this site for their credentials and I am not about to start 
flaunting elitist criteria. If the moderator thinks I am out of line then fine, 
let the moderator ban me. I am not about to let someone else's opinion stop me 
from expressing mine. Whether my experience is academic or from the world of the 
working classes should not be relevant to my ability to express my understanding 
of the facts. If your friend from NASA is offended I apologize. But it seems to 
me that I have expressed opinions on a wide variety of subjects, why does this 
one in particular piss you off to the extent that because of one word, "Joke", 
you are ready to have me banned? Exceedingly strange. 



________________________________
From: Mark E. Smith <mymark at gmail.com>
To: garyrumor2 at yahoo.com
Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 9:54:00 PM
Subject: Re: [R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists

Do you have college degrees, Gary? Do you have a college degree?

Dean Tuckerman says there are "smart people with degrees on both sides of
this thorny question."

The qualifications, degrees, credentials, and employment history of those
asking for a full and impartial investigation into the as yet unanswered
questions regarding 9/11, are posted for the world to see.

I have yet to see a single degree, credential, or appropriate employment
history posted for anyone who takes the government at their word and has no
questions.

There is nothing authoritarian about requiring that people engaged in
collaborative efforts adhere to the rules and respect others. All
collectives do this to ensure constructive work and responsible
participation.

For example in an organic foods or a media collective, a member cannot
propose that the collective do something without giving their reasons, and a
proposal cannot be shot down by simply saying, "That's a joke."

Attempting to mischaracterize the usual modes of cooperative behavior as
authoritarian, or those who engage in them as authoritarian, is nothing less
than sabotage.

Collectives do regularly ban or oust those who cannot or will not engage in
productive, cooperative behavior. That doesn't mean that collectives are
capitalist, imperialist, or authoritarian, it means that they are able to
focus on their goals and exclude anyone or anything that undermines or
interferes with their goals.

--Mark

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Gary Crethers <garyrumor2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> That is a good idea why don't you ban me. I am after all a 'provocateur'
> for not
> agreeing with you. That is what good authoritarians do after all.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark E. Smith <mymark at gmail.com>
> To: garyrumor2 at yahoo.com
> Cc: learnmusic at shaw.ca; dstainsby at telus.net
> Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 9:30:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [R-G] Not traditional conspiracy theorists
>
> All those listed with Military Professionals for 9/11 Truth, with Pilots
> for
> 9/11 Truth, for Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and similar
> organizations have their credentials publicly posted.
>
> For example, my friend David Griscom, an avid 9/11 Truther, is a retired
> NASA physicist, as is Dr. Robert Bowman.
>
> Does Gary Crethers have some professional background?
>
> Perhaps a degree in mechanical engineering or a pilot's license?
>
> Many people on the Military Professionals site have pointed out that the
> NIST reports were either based on false assumptions, incomplete, did not
> address Building 7 at all as claimed, or were never released.
>
> Does Gary have some top secret clearance that has enabled him to see
> reports
> that the general public cannot know about?
>
> All Military Professionals for 9/11 Truth have worked for the U.S.
> government in high-level, trusted positions.
>
> In order to grant Gary any credibility whatsoever, it would be helpful if
> he
> also told us exactly what his educational background is, what his position
> with the government was or is, and why it qualifies him to call the
> research
> of so many respected architects, engineers, and government professionals "a
> joke."
>
> Personally, I've felt for some time now that allowing a sneering
> provocateur
> like Gary to post, detracts from the quality of this mailing list. At the
> very least, calling the work of highly-qualified researchers a joke does
> not
> appear to be "respectful debate."
>
> Physicists, pilots, architects, and engineers rely on the laws of physics
> for their livelihoods. If the NIST reports are correct, jet fuel can burn
> at
> higher temperatures than have ever been shown under any conditions, steel
> can melt at lower temperatures than has ever been shown under any
> conditions, the law of gravity cannot be relied upon, and all undergraduate
> and graduate level university textbooks on physics, mechanics, chemistry,
> and engineering need to be revised to reflect the new post 9/11 NIST
> conclusions.
>
> --Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Macdonald Stainsby <mstainsby at resist.ca
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > I am not going to get into this. I have read much of the material and
> > > although
> > > it is interesting I find the Truth Out people to simply be engaging in
> > > wishful
> > > thinking.
> > >
> >
> > Of course you won't. Because people like yourself never do. Feined
> > disgust, camoflauged in official dribble from sources that would never
> > believe in any other case, suffice to help you keep yourself respectable
> > and a long way from any rational debate. You know, the ones based on
> > evidence, counter evidence, and dissection of what course of action to
> > take therefrom.
> >
> > I have, due to the lapse of time, come to the place where I wonder how
> > valuable these debates are. But then I see only yesterday that Obama has
> > reinstituted the "emergency powers act" and remind myself why this does
> > matter.
> >
> > RIP Robert John Enoch.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Macdonald Stainsby
> > Co-ordinator,
> > http://oilsandstruth.org
> > --
> > moderated radical discussion list:
> > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/rad-green
> > --
> > In the contradiction lies the hope.
> > -Bertholt Brecht.
> >
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