[Marxism] An analysis of the DP convention that works better

[Marvin Gandall]

Artesian writes:

> ...if you look to more recent history you find the SD and Labor
> parties playing just that role you ascribe to the conservatives and
> reactionaries-- do you think for a minute Thatcher's election would have
> been possible if the British LP under Callaghan had not first disorganized
> the rank and file movement that had thrown Heath out of office?   Do you
> think Merkel would have been triumphed if Schroeder had not first put the
> unions' feet to the fire?  Do you think Schroeder could have succeeded if
> the union leaderships  were not committed to, part and parcel of the
> accumulation of capital; if the unions were not incorporated into just
> that
> accumulation through their ties to the social-democrats?

MG: We disagree that the the liberal and conservative parties are
indistinguishable - but, more to the point, so do the working classes and
movements seeking social change.

Art:> And most of all, I think your above statement is a step back from your
> original position that recognized the DP as "inadequate" but still
> providing
> an arena for access to forces that would not be inadequate to resolving
> those economic conflicts at the heart of the current and future
> predicament.
> You really are now say there is no alternative; there can only be reform.

MG: At the present time, there is no alternative to reform, except in the
imagination. Can you point to a socialist party which presently offers an
alternative to the two-party system in the advanced capitalist countries?

I don't recall using the word "inadequate" to characterize the DP/SD's, but
that's true with respect to any hopes of their effecting any real structual
change to the current system of power and property, and it possibly true as
a prognosis of how they would cope with a deep social crisis comparable to
the last depression. If they proved unable to rescue capitalism and restore
living standards, the working classes would on their own conclude they were
inadequate to defend their basic interests, and would be open to other
alternatives. But right now, the workers stilll have confidence in the
capacity of these parties to adequately defend their standards. If they
didn't, voting patterns would be much more fluid than they presently are.