[Marxism] Re: Blair supports demand that women remove veils when talking to civilized people

[Lüko Willms]

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:45:35 -0400, Sayan Bhattacharyya wrote:

> I oppose the French ban on the headscarf -- that's a stupid and 
> discriminatory law. 

  That is a good starting point for a common understanding of the issue.

> But wearing a face-covering-veil is something else entirely. 
> Not to be able to see the face of someone when talking 
> to that person *does* make it difficult to talk
> to that person. 

  Sure, that's what happens when you talk to somebody over the phone, or 
listen to a radio. 

> I'm not even a Westerner, but it would make it difficult for
> even *me* to speak to someone who's wearing a veil.

   More difficult than talking over the phone? We would not want to 
force everybody to use a video-phone, wouldn't we? 

> While socialists should defend minorities, does this also mean 
> defending obscurantist religious practices? I don't think so. 

  Me neither, but that is not the issue here. 

> The headscarf is one thing, but the veil does demean 
> and degrade women (even if it's a woman "freely" choosing 
> to wear the veil -- and how do we differentiate between
> "free" choosing and social/peer pressure in this context)?

  I oppose any dress code based political or religious reasons forced 
upon women. 

  And imposing a dress code on women which prohibits wearing a veil is 
such a political or religiously motivated forced dress code, which 
denigrates women. 

  The message the bourgeois state sends by such a prohibition is "don't 
you dare to impose a dress code on women, WE do it. The women are not 
YOUR women, they are OUR women. WE force a dress code on them, not you. 
OUR rules on how much of their skin the women have to expose are valid, 
not yours". 

  But we should oppose ANY politically or religiously motivated forced 
dress code, and we should be clear about the fact that the bourgeois 
state has real means to enforce such a dress code, e.g. be kicking women 
out of her job (e.g. as teacher) and into poverty when they refuse to 
comply. One can't flee from it, but a woman can flee from parents or a 
husband who imposes any dress code on her which she does not comply 
with. 

  On the other hand, one can't know for sure, if a woman wears the veil 
out of her own will, or because some male person demands it. 

  But we should stand with any woman or girl who refuses a political or 
religious dress code from her parents, husband or brothers, and defend 
her against such pressure. 

  But a general dress code which issues other coercion of woman is the 
worst one could opt for, unless one wants to subjugate both women and 
national minorites, and drive divisions among working people. 

> There's also the very practical matter of  checking  someone 
> against a photo id.  Suppose I am a supermarket cashier and a 
> customer, a veiled woman, pays with a check and shows her driver's 
> license. How can I make sure that she's indeed the woman 
> whose photo is on the driver's license? 

  Well, that is a very practical matter which cannot be solved by a 
general compulsory dress code. Maybe the woman won't be able to pay with 
a check, or she shows her face just to a female cashier (males are rare 
at the cash register), or other, more modern payment systems come into 
force. Here in Germany, hardly anyone anywhere pays with a check; when I 
don't pay cash in a shop, I either have to enter my secret PIN code into 
the card terminal, or sign a statement which entitles the shop to get my 
full address from my bank should the debit fail. No ID card, no photo 
required. 

> Wearing a veil is
> simply incompatible with functioning in the modern world, 
> and socialists should not defend this practice.

  That's not the issue here; it is not about defending the veil, but 
refusing a coercive dress code upon women. 

  Only when we fight ANY coercive dress code can we defend woman who 
refuse such dress codes from here male relatives. 

Comradely yours, 
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt, Germany
--------------------------------
visit http://www.mlwerke.de Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Lenin, Trotzki in German