From malecki at mail.bip.net Thu Jun 1 00:16:27 2000 From: malecki at mail.bip.net (Bob Malecki) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:16:27 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Is Dave Bedgood around? References: Message-ID: <000201bfcb93$2a5be600$08a5fea9@zelda> Dave, if you are here could you send me a note. I have some stuff i want to send you privately. A weird discussion has developed over on the Russian moderatewr list involving your organization, Aldolfo O among other things. Bob Malecki --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se Thu Jun 1 05:57:29 2000 From: m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se (Hugh Rodwell) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:57:29 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Railway wkrs & LPP (Pakistan) leader arrested Message-ID: Just received the following report. Note the request for reactions: Please make appeals and send protest messages at the following email address: ce at pak.gov.pk Cheers, Hugh ***************************************************** LPP leader Bashir Botter arrested Rawalpindi police arrested a known railway workers leader and president of Labour Unity Rawalpindi, Bashir Botter, on 26th May. The police are looking for eight more railway workers including LPP Punjab vice-chairperson, Abida Bashir Botter. Abida is not a railway worker. Her only crime is that she is wife of Bashir Botter. Bashir Botter was earlier terminated by the railway administration on the charges of organizing illegal strikes and demonstrations. The police have charged him under section 506, 147, 109, PPC, 49 Defense of Pakistan Rule, and section 120, 121 Railway Act. Pakistan Penal Code section 506 means intimidation, 147 mean rioting, 109 means abetment, 120 and 121 of Railway Act deals with acts destroying the peaceful atmosphere at the railway premises. These nine accused are paying the price to organize a movement of railway workers and their families against the demolition of encroachments in front of railway workers quarters, the cancellation of peace work and withdrawal of some of the facilities that railway workers enjoyed in the past. A peaceful demonstration was held on 22nd May in front of administration office of the Railway Carriage factory organized by Labour Unity. Labour Unity is an alliance of several trade unions and community-based organizations supported by LPP and other progressive political parties. Over a thousand men, women and children participated in the demonstration. The main demands were restoring the peace work and the withdrawing of the notices to demolish the houses of railway workers. They were demanding the reinstatement of Bashir Botter to his job. They also raised slogans of the real accountability of the railway administration. The demonstration forced the railway administration to come to the rally and announce the acceptance of the main demands. The deputy Chief Mechanical Engineer Mr. Asad Ehsan on behalf of railway administration addressed the demonstrators. He assured that the houses would not be demolished. He also announced the restoring of peace work. But contrary to his claims, the administration of Railways registered a criminal case against Bashir Botter, his wife and other leaders of Labour Unity. On 26th Bashir Botter was arrested at 9pm on his way home house. He was brought to woods in Texila area, about 30 kilometers from Rawalpindi and was asked to run away. This was a tactic to shoot him or to harass him. He refused to escape from the police custody. It is a normal practice of police in Pakistan that whenever a person escapes from police custody, he is shot at immediately. On next day, he was brought to a magistrate and his advocates, Aftab Ahmed Abbasi and Jehangir Awan (both LPP leaders), appeared before the court and asked the magistrate for bail as all the offences mentioned in the FIR were bailable. I n bailable cases, the accused have rights to be released on bail, when he is presented before a magistrate. But surprisingly, two days physical remand of Bashir Botter was granted on the request of the police. No physical remand can be granted to police in bailable cases. The police said since they have to arrest of the wife of Bashir Botter, therefore the physical remand may be granted. Aftab Abbasi, Adocate for Bashir Botter, argued that physical remand could only be granted in non-bailable cases in which some offence weapon or other thing relating to the offence is to be recovered. A physical remand cannot be granted to the police to help in the arrest of any other person, he said. But the plea was rejected. Earlier on 15th May, an army officer deployed at the railway ordered an in charge of security at the railway to shoot Bashir Botter if he is seen at the premises of railway factory. The security in charge refused to do so and the Army major also threatened him that he might loose his job as well. Most of the trade unions and political parties have demanded an immediate release of Bashir Botter and the withdrawal of the cases against the workers. Please make appeals and send protest messages at the following email address: ce at pak.gov.pk Fraternally, Farooq Tariq General Secretary --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Thu Jun 1 11:01:39 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:01:39 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Nader and the Presidency Message-ID: <000201bfcc53$f6046be0$fdff869f@oemcomputer> THURSDAY, JUNE 1, 2000 Nader's rise puts Gore on guard The consumer crusader is siphoning enough Democratic votes to tilt some key Western states toward GOP's Bush. Peter Grier (grierp at csps.com) Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor WASHINGTON Ralph Nader's Green Party presidential bid is attracting enough liberal support in key states to make life difficult for Al Gore this fall. That's right - Ralph Nader. The venerable consumer crusader, a staple on the college lecture circuit for decades, has roared out of nowhere to scoop up environmentalist and union voters and threaten the Democratic presidential candidate from his left flank. "Threaten" might be too strong a word, but "bedevil," certainly. Right now Mr. Nader is running at 4 to 10 percent in the polls in California - just enough to tip a state Mr. Gore must win into the GOP column. He has a similar effect in Oregon and Washington. If nothing else, it seems probable that Nader will combine with the Reform Party's Pat Buchanan to account for 10 percent of the vote in November. That would make 2000 the third successive presidential election in which third parties reached that level of support. "That may never have happened before," says David Gillespie, a political scientist and third-party expert at Presbyterian College in Clinton, S.C. Nader's appearance on the political horizon has taken many major-party activists by surprise. After Donald Trump declined to run, and Jesse Ventura opted to stay in Minnesota, and Ross Perot quit overt politicking, Pat Buchanan was supposed to be the major minor candidate. But so far, Mr. Buchanan's defection from the GOP to the Reform Party has not helped either him or his new organization. Many of Buchanan's conservative followers did not ride with him away from the Republicans. And the Reform Party itself has been riven by his appearance in its midst. A significant percentage of Reformers don't agree with Buchanan's conservative views on abortion and other social issues. Meanwhile, Nader was deciding that the times were right for a concerted effort on his part. As the Green Party candidate in 1996, Nader barely campaigned at all. He spent less than $5,000 and got on the ballot in only a few states. In 2000, Nader has already raised at least $350,000 toward a goal of $5 million. He claims he will have his name on the ballot in 45 states. His basic theme: The Democratic and Republican parties are virtually the same, and they are both tools of big business. Being Ralph Nader, he delivers this message with a ferocity that appeals to committed activists. "On the big issue of whether our corporate government is going to take over our political government in Washington, you know what the difference [between the parties] is," he told a Michigan crowd recently. "The difference is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when the corporations come knocking on the door." Some union leaders, frustrated by the Clinton administration's push for permanent normal trade relations with China, are openly talking about a Nader endorsement. United Auto Workers head Stephen Yokich praised him last week, saying Nader's policies are not based on "what big money dictates." A few environmental groups feel the same way. Friends of the Earth is perhaps the largest such organization weighing a Nader endorsement. All this has skyrocketed ... well, blipped Nader's support up to 6 percent nationally in a recent Zogby poll. While small, that percentage was enough to tilt the survey to presumed Republican nominee George W. Bush, assuming Nader's support would otherwise vote Democratic. Mr. Bush got 43 percent in the poll, and Gore 39. Nader "is creating a little more noise than people would have thought," says Lee Miringoff, a political scientist at Marist College's Institute for Public Opinion in Poughkeepsie, N.Y. "In isolated states, he could be a factor." For the Gore campaign, the problem is where that might occur. Polls show Nader getting as much as 10 percent of the vote in California, making that state competitive for Bush. In fact, at his current level of support, Nader turns the whole Pacific coast from a Democratic stronghold into a battlefield. If Nader gets even 3 percent in Michigan and the rest of the upper Midwest, he could throw the election to the Republicans, depending on how much conservative support Buchanan siphons from Bush. It's early yet, and support for protest candidates often evaporates as the election draws near. Furthermore, Nader's position as a possible spoiler may be more indicative of Gore weakness than Nader strength. In California and other key states, "Gore is not running as well now as he needs to anyway," says Mr. Miringoff. Gore campaign officials express unconcern about the Nader factor. They feel that his "surge," such as it is, is little more than a talking point for pundits. Yet some experts say Nader is simply of a piece with Mr. Perot and other recent third-party phenomena. The last two presidential elections have already seen nonmajor parties get more than 10 percent of the vote - the first time that has happened sequentially since before the Civil War. (c) Copyright 2000 The Christian Science Publishing Society. All rights reserved. Warm regards George Pennefather Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Be free to subscribe to our Communist Think-Tank mailing community by simply placing subscribe in the body of the message at the following address: mailto:rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Thu Jun 1 10:36:54 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:36:54 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Korea Message-ID: <000101bfcc53$f554f200$fdff869f@oemcomputer> It is clear that the visit by the North Korean to China two weeks before the summit involving North and South Korea is meant as a signal to both South Korea and the West that North Korea. It sends a twofold signal that North Korea is not isolate and that on the other hand no settlement can be agreed on in the absence of consultation with China. Warm regards George Pennefather Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Be free to subscribe to our Communist Think-Tank mailing community by simply placing subscribe in the body of the message at the following address: mailto:rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From debsian at pacbell.net Fri Jun 2 13:16:29 2000 From: debsian at pacbell.net (Michael Pugliese) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:16:29 -0700 Subject: M-TH: Fiji Up-date Message-ID: <005001bfccc7$3bbf1540$c9dcd6cf@oemcomputer> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:41:03 +1000 From: Centre For the Contemporary Pacific To: pacific-islands-l at cairo.anu.edu.au Subject: Fiji Up-date Dear Readers, The School of Law at the University of the South Pacific, Emalus Campus, Vanuatu would like to highlight its Special Interest Section of the Journal of South Pacific Law. The first volume features articles and comments on the attempted coup in Fiji. It can be accessed on the following URL: http://www.vanuatu.usp.ac.fj/whatsnew/What's The USP's Emalus Campus home page is: www.vanuatu.usp.ac.fj Regards, Greg Rawlings Centre for the Contemporary Pacific Research School of Pacific and Asian Studies Room 4207 Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 Australia Telephone: (61) (2) 6249 3098 Fax: (61) (2) 6249 5525 E-mail: ccp at coombs.anu.edu.au http://rspas.anu.edu.au/ccp/ ------------------------------------ For catalogs of online resources see: Pacific Studies WWW Virtual Library http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVL-PacificStudies.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2089 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Fri Jun 2 23:35:17 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:35:17 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Committed to my science... Message-ID: >>> "Charles Brown" 12/20/98 11:20AM >>> Rob, I probably talked too long on this thread. You probably are tired of it. Anyway, you seem to say we are saying the same thing. I certainly cheer your rigorous democracy. I just don't want you to think we Leninists are not with you 100% in that, despite Stalinism. Charles >>> Rob Schaap 12/18 11:54 PM >>> G'day Chas, I'm a bit snowed under just now, but I think we'd ultimately have to agree we're not gonna agree on much of this (something Russia's socialists, for whatever reason, were not very good at after 1917). I do think you miss my point in this part of the exchange, though: >>Charles: But no bourgeois government >>has done better than this , right ? > >Rob: Most bourgeois governments have the TINA hegemony going for them. >Churches, schools, workplaces, media and papers all combine beautifully to >make profound disagreement at the social level pretty unlikely. >________ > >Charles: The Soviet government had >the equivalent going for it. If you are >saying the Soviet government had >democratic centralism then the above >is part of democratic centralism and >so the bourgeoisie have democratic >centralism too. It is false that the >Soviet system was run on force >and not Gramscian hegemony as >well. >_______ >Rob: Bourgeois >governments do VERY well as a consequence. >________ > >Charles: Some have, some haven't. They >have a long history. They have carried out >the biggest wars in the history of humanity. >That is the complete opposite of democracy >and is total centralism. In other words, >they send millions of their own people >off to be massacred for profits mainly. >That ain't democracy. >________ > > >Rob: They function daily against the >better interests of those who put 'em there and we respond by ever keeping >'em there. >________ > >Charles: This is not democracy. It is >a profound trickster masquerading >as democracy. >_________ As I see it, I made the point that it's not easy distinguishing between DC as it was practiced from what bourgeois parties generally do. You then argued that this is demonstrably not democracy at all. Which is what I thought I was saying. Cheers, Rob. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Fri Jun 2 23:36:11 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:36:11 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Message-ID: >>> Rob Schaap 12/20 12:04 PM >>> G'day Chas, >I'll be glad to yield to your >suggestion. I cannot say >that I yield on the substantive >point, though ,as I said in >my post, I have great respect >for James F's opinion. I wasn't suggesting you stop talking about this, _________ Charles: Oh good, cause I do have a few thoughts regarding what Jim F. said. Just checking. That hammering the lid on the box sounded kind of like a coffin metaphor, so I figure you were dead serious. Never can tell you know. My understanding is that Andy and Jim F. are saying that they disagree with the Engels and Lenin position of what is called dialectical materialism which looks for Marx's (not Hegelian , though it is a tranformed Hegelian dialectic) dialectic in nature and culture(human history). I thought the examples that James F. gave in natural history and biology fit the Engels model. I thought they were similar to those which Levins and Lewontin make in _The Dialectical Biologist_. They develop a definite dialectical aspect of biology related to the priority of the whole over the parts. I welcome this as affirmation of Engels's position on the issue of this thread. and in _Anti-Duhring_ and _The Dialectics of Nature_ ( the latter by the way is unpublished notes in preparation for a book All of the criticisms of Engels oversimplification do not take this into account). However, Darwinism is also classically Marxistly dialectical both in its transition from creationism to evolutionism ;and as described by Lenin in _The Teachings of Karl Marx_ especially with respect to Stephen Jay Gould's punctuated equilibrium,in which, I believe the punctuations are major extinctions in the history of life. I'll copy the larger passage on this later.But the point is that catastrophes, revolutions, leaps within slower change or evolution renders this fundamental theory of natural history more dialectical in the Hegelian sense than it was in the Darwinian form. James F. seems to know Stephen Jay Gould fairly well. I am not trying to say what Gould's philosophical position is. I am glad for Gould's work. Unrelated to this thread , I had been reading Darwin's _The Origin of Species_ to better understand the types of issues we are discussing here. I noticed that Darwin put a lot of emphasis on gradual change. I thought to myself that's not all the way dialectical. Not that Darwin was a conscious dialectician,but I knew that Marx and Engels considered that he was using their method in biology. Then I heard of Gould's punctuated equilibrium as modification of Darwin and I thought he's rendered it more dialectical. Whether Gould agrees with that I don't know. James F. indicated elsewhere that Gould is a Marxist. So, I assumed that he may have seen his theory as making natural history more Marxist or dialectical. From the discussion of Gould on the other list came the following post. >Chas.:The dialectical is me looking at what Gould >is saying and analyzing it. I have never >heard Gould use the term to describe it. >However, Engels says somewhere that >most good scientists then ( and now we might add) >proceed dialectically but without knowing >it. I will look for the statements from >Engels and maybe Haldane, if you like. > >The principle in question is the interpenetration >of quality and quantity. Darwin describes >evolution as continuous (gradual). The punctuations >would make it continuous with rare discontinuities. > >What say you ? > >Charles Brown > Detroit Writing about punctuated equilibrium in *The Panda's Thumb* Gould writes: "If gradualism is more a product of Western thought than a fact of nature, then we should consider alternate philosophies of change to enlarge our realm of constraining prejudices. In the Soviet Union, for example, scientists are trained with a very different philosophy of change-the so-called dialectical laws, reformulated by Engels from Hegel's philosophy. The dialectical laws are explicitly punctuational.... Eldredge and I were fascinated to learn that many Russian paleontologists support a model similar to our punctuated equlibria." (pp.184-5) In a review of Lewontin et al., *Not In Our Genes* reprinted in *An Urchin in the Storm* Gould writes: "...we cannot factor a complex social situation into so much biology on one side, and so much culture on the other. We must seek to understand the emergent and irreducible properties arising from an inextricable interpenetration of genes and environments. In short, we must use what so many great thinkers call, but American fashion dismisses as political rhetoric from the other side, a dialectical approach. "Dialectical thinking should be taken more seriously by Western scholars, not discarded becasue some nations of the second world have constructed a cardboard version as an official political doctrine. The issues that it raises are, in another form, the crucial questions of reductionism versus holism, now so much under discussion throughout biology.... "When presented as guidelines for a philosophy of change, not as dogmatic precepts true by fiat, the three classical laws of dialectics embody a holistic vision that views change as interaction among components of complete systems, and sees the components themselves not as a priori entities, but as both products of and inputs to the system" (pp.153-4) See also his comments on Engels in *Ever Since Darwin* (pp.210-11) and *Urchin* (pp.111-12). Gould is not one of those scientists who thinks dialectically without knowing it. This seems to be evidence that Gould endorses Engels use of the dialectic in natural history. He seems to find use for the three principles that Andy mentioned a number of times. Gould's popular essays are sort of a modern version of J. Haldane's essays. Haldane wrote the preface to the International edition of _The Dialectics of Nature_. That essay is pertinent to the current dispute. That's where we learn of the unpublished only partially prepared nature of the "book." and other ideas. Lewontin and Levins dedicate _The Dialectical Biologist_ to Engels. This does not make me think these Marxist professional natural scientists have a fundamental disagreement with Engels' understanding of dialectics. My understanding is that Andy is saying that Engels's position is idealist. This is what James F. implies after Colletti that Engels smuggles the Hegelian dialectical god back in to his analysis. This is a switch from usual . Usually Engels is accused of being a vulgar materialist. I suppose this is one of those things where you have twins: idealist and vulgar materialist. I also have an essay from a philosophy professor who is a Marxist and a specialist on Hegel. He says he has just been grappling with the problem of this thread. I'll wait before bringing that onto the list. Charles Brown _____ just that I thought James's point had succinctly rounded off the argument to my personal satisfaction. I was only saying 'yeah, what he said'. >Perhaps James F will >teach me some offlist. Nor do I wanna inhibit James's public utterances on this while he's cooking. Good stuff, I reckon! G'Night, Rob. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:53:34 -0500 Size: 7984 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Fri Jun 2 23:36:45 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:36:45 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Message-ID: Andy, I just came across the below. Interjections below. Another dialectical concept is sublation or supersecession or to preserve and overcome ( a contradiction ). Marx, Engels and Lenin use this from Hegel too. It occurs as a variation of some of the more elementary concepts of dialectics. I will get to it in the text below, but I would say there is a paradox or irony in Marx and Engels career of philosophical publishing. You see I think in Hegel's heyday, for Young Hegelians and all philosophers in Germany , it was unthinkable that Hegel would fall into such oblivion as he did. So, Marx and Engels got off in their start with a big emphasis on fighting too much philosophizing (The German Ideology, etc.). When Marx looked up at the time of the Afterword to the Second German edition of Capital he had sort of realized some of what I am getting at here. The bottom line for the moment is that Marx didn't feel the need to write out elementary dialectics because Hegel already had. Marx's dialectic is not just "different than Hegel's but it's direct opposite". It's the whole Hegel flipped around with the center pulled out and used. Being the direct opposite in a dialectical conception is closer than being different. It is an indication of relation or dialectical opposition between the two. Interjections below. >>> Andrew Wayne Austin 12/17 10:09 PM >>> On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Charles Brown wrote: >The generalization, or transhistorical category of class struggle doesn't >mean it is historically universal. Struggle or contradiction or unity and >struggle of opposites is the more general category which would apply to >all human history. Okay, so you say you do not think that class struggle is a universal category. ______ Charles: Class struggle is not universal in human history. We all agree on that, don't we ? The first sentence of the Manifesto, modern anthropology and archeology, the old stone age , the new stone age, most of human history was not a class society. Classes arose about 7,000 years ago. The Origin of the Family, Private, Property and the State. ____________ But isn't it your position is that the universal dialectic manifests in concrete reality, of which class struggle is one example? _____ Charles: Universal dialectic is like universal non-universal. I guess you should think of how change means difference. If the dialectic is universal , that means change or becoming different is universal. But difference is the opposite of universal. Universal means the same everywhere. A universal dialect means difference everywhere. >But CLASS struggle arises with classes. So the dialectic of class struggle in history is a process that inheres in the social system itself, and is not the manifestation of a universal dialectic? This seems at odds with the position of the universal dialectic. ______ Charles: The class struggle is a particular change going on. It is not the same as all changes everywhere. It is like them in that it is a changing. >I treat [class struggle] as a limited generalization just like the first >sentence. So now you are arguing that the dialectic does not really exist outside of some social dynamics (such as class struggle)? Are you abandoning you previous position? __________ Charles: The dialectic exists in social dynamics and in physical dynamics. My position is (ironically) not changing in this thread. You are thinking wishfully when you say that or refer to back peddling. You wish. _________ >Charles: You asserted that, but you didn't demonstrate it. Natural >selection is dialectical. The struggle for existence involves the >unity and struggle of opposites. Explain this, please. How does the process of random variation and natural selection in populations involve the "unity and contradiction of opposites"? ________ Charles: I responded to this before. Since this comment this discussion has extended. I would recommend Levins and Lewontin's _The Dialectical Biologist_ And I have posted the quote from Stepehn Jay Gould quoting Engels on species evolution as cooperation and struggle, or unity and struggle. However, I would reiterate the model I gave before. The species unit does change as a unity and struggle of opposites, as the genotypical range is both a unity ,as they are all exclusively fertile (definition of a species) and a struggle as some will be selected against that is not pass on their genes to a viable next generation. >Charles: The dialectic of human history is not the same dialectic as that >of natural history. Darwin's theory is not fully dialectical, but it is >dialectical relative to creationism and the prevailing theories of nature >of his day. So now you are saying that whereas natural selection involves the unity and contradiction of opposites - one of the three laws of dialectics - class struggle does not involve the unity and contradiction of opposites? _______ Charles: Andy, you try your best NOT to understand everything. I think that's the unversal negation of the negation operating in your thought. Both class struggle and struggle for existence involve the unity and struggle of opposites. They are different complexes of contradictions. ______ If they are not the same dialectic then what is different about them? _______ Charles: The class struggle is a Lamarckian dialectic. Natural selection is not. Interestingly, I reread the section of the Afterword to the Second German Edition of Capital where the Russian reviewer comments. The amazing thing that has been revived in my mind is that Marx considers himself to be literally doing natural history in writing Capital. We are all familiar, in part because of the fancy Marxists and post modernists, that Marx emphasized that capitalism is not the eternal or "natural" form of production. It is historically specific, as the Russian sketches. But just because Marx doesn't think capitalism is the permanent natural form of political economy doesn't mean he doesn't think it derives through natural processes. Marx considers human history to be a dialectical continuation or sublation of natural history. Human history preserves and overcomes natural history. It is Marx's materialism that he starts with the preservation or the continuity between natural and human history (See The German Ideology). Is it because the dialectic is universal that it can be anything? _________ Charles: Any and everything changes. Nothing stays the same. A rock is such an easy example, I am surprised you ask. A rock dissolves in friction (contradiction) when a river runs over it. A rock is not stable. It is teeming mountain of molecules and atoms all constantly moving. Literally, with positive and negative elements struggling with each other in the structure of the atoms. _________ What do you mean when you say it is dialectical relative to creationism? Do you mean that it subsumes religion within its logic and rises to a new synthesis? ________ Charles: Creationism posits a single act of creation,with no changes in the species since. It is a fixed, eternally unchanging system. Darwin makes a fundamental dialectical change in this by saying new forms arise out of the old. What does it mean to say something is not fully dialectical? Does that mean that it only meets one or two of the three laws of dialectics, such as unity and contradiction of opposites, but does not meet one or both of the other two criteria (quantity into quality and the negation of the negation)? ______ Charles: Lenin in _The Teachings of Karl Marx speaks directly to this issue. He points out that Marx's theory of evolution has more to it than the "current" theory, meaning Darwin's. Darwin's has gradual change ,which is part of Hegel's. Gradual change is more dialectical than creationism with no change. Revolution/evolution is even more Hegelian. So in a way Darwin's lacks the idea that new quality arises from quantitative leaps or discontinuities. >Darwin's theory changed naturalism radically in a dialectical direction >by it being evolutionary. Evolutionism is more dialectical than statics >or whatever. Lamarck had a theory of evolution. Was Lamarck's theory dialectical? (Actually, Lamarck's theory is more dialectical than Darwin's theory, since Lamarck sees forms incorporating change into the organism and rising to new levels of synthesis with each successive generation, what Hegel calls "sublation" or Aufhebung.) What is so special about the dialectic if it is evolutionary theory? What makes it a special theory of evolution? _______ Charles: Darwin's evolutionary theory, especially supplemented by Stephen Jay Gould's punctuated equilibrium, is an example of dialectics in an important science. _______ >But Stephen Jay Gould's punctuated equilibrium adds revolutionary leaps >to Darwin's gradual evolutionism, thereby rendering it even more >dialectica. Perhaps. But we weren't talking about Stephen Jay Gould. _______ Charles: I have been talking about him. Anyway, so what if we have not been talking about him. We are talking about him now that I brought him up. More later, gotta see what you wrote today. Charles Brown Revolutionism is the apotheosis of change. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:45:16 -0500 Size: 10550 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Fri Jun 2 23:38:28 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:38:28 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Message-ID: >>> Andrew Wayne Austin 12/23 2:54 AM >>> . . . need to correct some mistatements of fact . . . On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Charles Brown wrote: >I thought the examples that James F. gave in natural history and biology >fit the Engels model. . . . I welcome this as affirmation of Engels's >position . . . . I have long argued that aspects of evolutionary theory and evolutionary process may be described as dialectical and I was open-minded about this matter. What I dispute is Engels argument that the dialectic is the general laws of development in nature, society, and thought. I have never a priori rejected the possibility of any form of change being dialectic. What I have rejected is the view that all change is a priori dialectical. ________ Charles: So your position is that we just have to wait and see as each type of change comes up as to whether it is dialectical ? Has any type of change been discovered yet that was not dialectical as you understand Marx to mean dialectical ? What is it ? _______ Below, Charles contradicts himself. First, he says that >However, Darwinism is also classically Marxistly dialectical . . . as >described by Lenin in _The Teachings of Karl Marx_ especially with >respect to Stephen Jay Gould's punctuated equilibrium, in which, I >believe the punctuations are major extinctions in the history of life. But then he writes that >the point is that catastrophes, revolutions, leaps within slower change >or evolution renders this fundamental theory of natural history more >dialectical in the Hegelian sense than it was in the Darwinian form. In this argument we find that Darwin's theory is said to be dialectical in the classically Marxist sense. _________ Charles: The answer to your riddle, Andy,my boy, is that I used Darwinism the first time to include Stephen Jay Gouldism as part of Darwinism. And the second time I used Darwinism, I should have said original Darwinism not modified by Gould's theory. This was an equivocation of my use of the word "Darwinism." But the point is consistent for anyone trying to understand. _____ And the example given is Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium. But then in the next sentence we find that whereas Gould's theory is dialectic, it is more dialectical in the Hegelian sense than in the Darwinian form. The problem is that revolutions, qualitative leaps, and so forth, are Marxian dialectical (and the form is Hegelian). But this is different, Charles says, than the Darwinian form. So, the conclusion is this: Darwinian evolution is not dialectical. I agree. ________ Charles: The conclusion one more time, is that Darwinism is more dialectical than the theories of biology which prevailed when he wrote his famous thesis, creationism etc. But Darwinism was not fully dialectical in the Hegelian sense. You mentioned that evolutionism had been around for a thousand years and Darwin's father was an evolutionist. But if you look in any biology basic textbook , which will have a sketch of Darwin's biography, you will find that Christian creationism was the prevailing theory of Darwin's day AND THAT CHARLES DARWIN HIMSELF WAS A CREATIONIST UPON STARTING THE VOYAGE OF THE BEAGLE. The 101 text I just read says that Darwin was going out to find data to uphold creationism over a recent geological theory that held the earth's geology had evolved. The point here is that relative to his day, Darwin's theory was none other than a LEAP, a revolution, a qualitative change, from a metaphysical or anti-dialectical conception of natural species, to an elementarily , though not fully dialectical conception. >Marx and Engels considered that he [Darwin] was using their method in >biology. Where does Marx ever say that Darwinian evolution is an application of Marx's dialectical method? ________ Charles: In his book _Ever Since Darwin_ in the essay "Darwin Delay" , Stephen Jay Gould says the following: "In 1869, Marx wrote to Engels about Darwin's _Origin_" (Get this Andy, this is Marx speaking) "ALTHOUGH IT IS DEVELOPED IN THE CRUDE ENGLISH STYLE, THIS IS THE BOOK WHICH CONTAINS THE BASIS IN NATURAL HISTORY FOR OUR VIEW" >This seems to be evidence that Gould endorses Engels use of the dialectic >in natural history. He seems to find use for the three principles that >Andy mentioned a number of times. All these quotes by Gould don't prove or even support Engels' claim that dialectics are general law in nature, society, and thought. What is the point of quoting Gould? __________ Charles: Andy, I am starting to think that you are incorrigible. These quotes from Stephen Jay Gould blow your argument out of the water. First of all you haven't denied that Marx and Engels said what Gould says they do. Second, Gould is the perfect one for this discussion because he is a recognized expert in paleontology or natural history. He is not a philosopher or social scientist. He has basic data knowledge about change outside of human history, in a discipline of natural history. This is exactly what we are arguing about. And he says Engels conception of dialectics is very helpful to him in his natural history science. I generally agree with Gould. I have never said that the "three laws of dialectics" have no application. They are heuristics that have their value, as Gould has argued. What I reject is that they are the general laws of development of nature, society, and thought. ______ Charles: Yes, you keep saying that. But now we find a major natural scientist says they are important in understanding natural history. _______ C. Brown seems to think that because I reject the view that the universe - the natural, social, and cognitive - operates according to a dialectic that somehow I have rejected dialectics, and the notions of quantity into quality, interpenetration of divergent elements, or the negation of the negation. I have used the concepts in my work. I have said Marx uses the concepts in his work. _________ Charles: Sounds like back pedalling to me. _________ >My understanding is that Andy is saying that Engels's position is >idealist. This is what James F. implies after Colletti that Engels >smuggles the Hegelian dialectical god back in to his analysis. This is a >switch from usual. Usually Engels is accused of being a vulgar >materialist. I suppose this is one of those things where you have twins: >idealist and vulgar materialist. Vulgar materialism is a form of idealism. Realist have pointed out that some forms of materialism commit the fallacy of misplaced concreteness by seeing the structure of the world as only matter in motion, whereas the structure of the world is relational. Positivism is also confused with a realist position, when in fact it is idealism. Marx's materialism was a realist position that stood contrary to positivism. This is contrast to Engels' work. Engels took an a priori rigid dialectic and applied it as a positivist model to the world. That is vulgar. And it is idealist. ________ Charles: This is a good statement, except the ridiculous anti-Engelsism is continues. Engels' dialectic was much more relativist and flexible than yours. See Lenin in _Materialism and Empirio-Criticism_ on Engels and the dialectic of relative and absolute truth. Your term "rigid dialectic" shows you don't really understand dialectic. _ On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Charles Brown wrote: >>"In 1869, Marx wrote to Engels about >>Darwin's _Origin'_: >>'Although it is developed in the crude >>English style, this is the book which contains >>the basis in natural history for our view.' Yes, this is true. Read in the German Ideology where Marx and Engels stress the importance of understanding the physical substratum, and how they assume this in their work. They never sought to figure this part out because they were concerned with developing their science of history, which, as they stated, is the only science they know. Darwin came along and provided the best explanation for the development of the species at a biological level. And so, Marx writes, Darwin's theory "contains the basis in natural history for our view." Precisely. But this does not say that Darwin uses the Marxian dialectical method in his theory. __________ Charles:Marx's theory is all of one piece the materialism with the dialectics. He doesn't mean Darwin is materialist and not dialectical. Darwin is using "our" (Marx AND Engels; you know he was talking to Engels when he said "our view") view. This does not say Marx believed that Darwin's theory was dialectical. It simply says that he accepts Darwin's account of the natural history of Man as constituting the natural historical basis - the physiological and ecological substrata - for the materialist conception of history. ________ Charles: Marx means Darwin's view is a form of dialectical materialism. ________ >"A common bit of folklore-that Marx offered to dedicate volume 2 of Das >Kapital to Darwin (and that Darwin refused)-turns out to be false. But Marx >and Darwin did correspond, and Marx held Darwin in very high regard." Sure. If Marx believed that Darwin's theory contained the basis in natural history for the historical materialist view then it would seem to follow that Marx held Darwin in high regard. >More importantly, what Marx and Engels admired about Darwin was his >materialism, not his gradualism. More like his naturalism. This dovetails with Marx's earlier writings. What Marx admired most was Darwin's non-teleological manner of explanation. >"The essential difference between human and animal society consists in the >fact that animals at most *collect* while men *produce*. This sole but >cardinal difference alone precludes the simple transfer of laws of animal >societies to human societies." Engels was no dummy. This is from Marx's earlier writings where Marx argues that human beings distinguish themselves from animals when they began to produce their existence. As for Engels comments below, I remember in first grade having symbiosis explained to me as "co-operation." As Gould stresses, "struggle" in Darwin is a metaphor. On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Charles Brown commenting on the dialectics of barley seeds and butterflies: >I think these are good examples. Not stupid. There is an elementary level >that may seem truistic but is actually profound. Andy ___________ Charles Brown -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:47:04 -0500 Size: 11686 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Fri Jun 2 23:39:34 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:39:34 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Message-ID: Andy Austin had asked: What does it mean to say something is not fully dialectical? Does that mean that it only meets one or two of the three laws of dialectics, such as unity and contradiction of opposites, but does not meet one or both of the other two criteria (quantity into quality and the negation of the negation)? ______ Charles: I responded as follows. I want to put on the thread here a section from Lenin's _The Teachings of Karl Marx_ which speaks to this issue of the partial dialectiality of Darwin's thesis as written by Darwin. Original Darwinism (not modified by Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium). First follows my comment from the previous post. Charles: Lenin in _The Teachings of Karl Marx speaks directly to this issue. He points out that Marx's theory of evolution has more to it than the "current" theory, meaning Darwin's. Darwin's has gradual change ,which is part of Hegel's. Gradual change is more dialectical than creationism with no change. Revolution/evolution is even more Hegelian. So in a way Darwin's lacks the idea that new quality arises from quantitative leaps or discontinuities. Here is a passage from Lenin "Dialectics" Marx and Engels regarded Hegelian dialectics, the theory of evolution most comprehensive, rich in content and profound, as the greatest achievement of classical German philosophy. All other formulations of the principle of development, of evolution, they considered to be one- sided, poor in content, distorting and mutilating the actual course of development of nature and society (a course often consummated in leaps and bounds, catastrophes, revolutions). (quoting Engels) Marx and I were almost the only persons who rescued conscious dialectics...{from the swamp of idealism, including Hegelianism} by transforming it into the materialist conception of nature... (Anti-Duhring) Nature is the test of dialectics, and we must say that science has supplied a vast and daily increasing mass of material for this test, thereby proving that, in the last analysis, nature proceeds dialectically and not metaphysically (Anti-Duhring) (this was written before the discovery of radium, electrons, the tranmutation of elements, etc. - Lenin's insert) (end quote of Engels) Again Engels writes: The great basic idea that the world is not to be viewed as a complex of fully fashioned objects, but as a complex of processes, in which apparently stable objects, no less than the images of them inside our heads (our concepts), are undergoing incessant changes, arising here and disappearing there, and which with all apparent accident and in spite of all momentary retrogression, ultimately constitutes a progressive development- this great basic idea has, particularly since the time of Hegel, so deeply penetrated the general consciousness that hardly any one will now venture to dispute it in its general form. But it is one thing to accept it in words, quite another thing to put it in practice on every occasion and in every field of investigation (Ludwig Feuerbach) In the eyes fo dialectic philosophy, nothing is established for all time, nothing is absolute or sacred ( See Andy). On everything and in everything it sees the stamp of inevitable decline; nothing can resist it save the unceasing process of formation and destruction, the unending ascent from the lower to the higher - a process which that philosophy itself is only a simple reflection with the thinking brain. ( Ludwig Feuerbach) (end quote of Engels) Thus dialectics, according to Marxism, is "the science of the general laws of motion both of the external world and of human thinking. This revolutionary side of Hegel's philosophy was adopted adn developed by Marx. Dialectical materialism "does not need any philosophy towering above the other sciences." (Anti-Duhring). Of former philosophies there remain "the science of thinking and its laws - formal logic and dialectics. (Anti- Duhring). Dialectics, as the term is used by Marx in conformity with Hegel, includes what is now called the theory of cognition, or epistemology, or gnoseology, a science that must contemplate its subject matter in the same way - historically, studying and generalising the origin and development of cognition, the transition from non-consciousness to consciousness. In our times the idea of development, of evolution ( i.e. Darwinism -CB) has almost fully penetrated social consciousness, but it has done so in other wasy, not through Hegel's philosophy. Still, the same idea, as formulated by Marx and Engels on the basis of Hegel's philosophy, is much more comprehensive, much more abundant in content than the current theory of evolution . (THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ANDY. DARWIN'S EVOLUTION IS NOT FULLY DIALECTICAL -CB) A development that repeats, as it were, the stages already passed, but repeats them in a different way, on a higher plane (negation of negation) ; a development, so to speak, in spirals, not in a straight line; a development in leaps and bounds, catastrophes, revolutions; "intervals of gradualnes"; transformation of quantity into quality; inner impulses for development, imparted by contradiction, the conflict of different forces and tendencies reacting on a given body or inside a given phenomena or within a given society;interdependence, and the closest, indissoluable connection between ALL sides of every phenomenon (history discloses ever new sides), a connection that provides the one world-process of motion proceeding according to law _such are some of the features of dialectics as a doctrin of evolution more full of meaning than the current one. (See letter of Marx to Engels, dated January 8, 1868, in which he ridicules Stein's "wooden trichotomies," which it is absurd to confuse with materialist dialectics) End quote of Lenin. This more completely answers Andy's questions about the relative dialecticality of Darwin' evolution and Marxist revolutionary/evolutionary dialectics. Charles Brown Revolutionism is the apotheosis of change --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:32:21 -0500 Size: 7339 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Fri Jun 2 23:37:33 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:37:33 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Message-ID: >>> 12/23 6:26 AM >>> I am with Charles Brown 100% (almost) in this dispute. __________ Charles: Thanks for that, comrade. _____ Charles: I think you are making fundamentally helpful points in emphasizing the usual aspects of materialism. It's funny but we have been discussing mainly dialectics and comes the charge from Andy that Engels and Lenin are idealists in their position. I have been arguing against this without going into the usual fundamentals of materialism to combat Andy's charge of idealism. As you point out, it usually means that oneself is the real idealist when one tries to say Engels is an idealist. ________ The turning point in this argument was the Giraffe debate where the evolution of the long neck was accepted as (partially) dialectical. None could say what _______ Charles: Oops I cut off some. I think the giraffe example, which I only skimmed is dialectics in a natural example. It seems like the discussion of Lewontin and Levins in _The Dialectical Biologist_ ; animals have some subjectivity vis-a-vis their environments. The whole is prior to the parts. These are dialectical principles. But Darwinism is dialectical too. Did you see the letter in which Marx called Darwin's work "our (Marx AND Engels'_ method in natural history ? 1. There are no universal, absolute laws we are told. Then comes the current, very good debate, on Marx and the particular and the general. But Charles Brawn must be aware the there is an even more *general* statement of the general. _______ Charles: Yes ! That quote was rattling around in the back of my mind and I was going to find it and post it. This is the fullest statement of the principle I am getting at. Thanks. This will help to concentrate the argument. I refer to Engels famous passage an Anti-Duhring (Gerry Healy*s favourite to enrage the anti-diamets): " When we consider and reflect on nature at large or the history of mankind or our own intellectual activity, at first we see the picture of an endless entanglement of relations and reactions, permutations and combinations, in which nothing remains what where and as it was, but everything moves, changes, comes into being and passes away. [We see therefore at first the picture as a whole, with its individual parts still kept more or less in the background.; we observe the movement, transition, connections, rather than the things that move, combine and are connected.] This primitive, na?ve, but intrinsically correct conception of the world is that of ancient Greek philosophy, and was first clearly formulated by Heraclitus: everything is and is not, for everything is fluid, is constantly coming into being and passing away. 2. But this conception, correct as it expresses the General character of the picture of appearances as a whole, does not suffice to explain the details of which this picture is made up, and as long as we do not understand these we cannot have a clear ideal of the whole picture. In order to understand these details we must detach them from their natural or historical connection and examine each one separately, its nature, specific causes, etc. * The analysis of nature into its individual parts, the groupi8ng of the different natural processes and objectives in definite classes, the study of the internal anatomy of organic bodies in their manifold forms - these were the fundamental conditions for the gigantic strides in our knowledge during the last four hundred years. But this method of work also left us as legacy the habit of observing natural objects and processes in isolation, apart from their connection with the vast whole; of observing them in repose, not in motion; as constants not as essentially variables; in their death, not in their life. And when this way of looking at things was transferred by Bacon and Locke from natural science to philosophy, it begot the narrow, metaphysical mode of thought peculiar to the last century." AND THATS DIALECTICAL ________ Charles: Yes indeedy ! Gerry Downing Charles Brown -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Re: Marx conceiving of nature dialectically Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:10:25 -0500 Size: 5577 URL: From malecki at mail.bip.net Fri Jun 2 23:18:16 2000 From: malecki at mail.bip.net (Bob Malecki) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 07:18:16 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Is Chris Buford here? References: <000101bfcc53$f554f200$fdff869f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00a401bfcd23$b5e9a180$c9e4a3c3@zelda> Chis a controversy from the old "Maoist wars" at Jefferson Village has leaped up. Could you comment on my memory here and if it is correct? Thanks Bob Malecki ___________________________________________________________ Oh yeah! Well your "pal" (Detcom)was going around and fingering Peruvian militants in the US and bragging about it. Foremost Aldolfo and your pal were going after the Red Flag group and Luis Quispe who also lay claim to Maoist ideology howebver not the particular brand of Aldolfo. This by the way was called the "maoist" wars over on Jefferson Village And your pal's roll in this stuff can allso be proved as there are people still around including Quispe and the Red Flag people who remember quite well all of this stuff. Because they had to take up campaigns for some of these jailed Peruvian militants awaiting deportation. > This is a vicious lie. Detcom has a hard enough time getting out of his > house (being physically disabled with Cystic Fibrosis), much less doing what > you accuse him of! Well if it is a viscious lie then why did the guy go around bragging they he was going to demos and taking pictures for Aldolfo in order to get the goods on the Red Flag people? Although Detcom was being accused of being a nutter and drunk by the Detroit "milkmaid" who was another quite intelligent maoist who was involved in all of this. But the real point is that Mao/Stalinism in all of its variants especially rely it appears on goon tactics and accusing all and sundry of being agents of something or other. In fact another character who was involved in all of this was Rolf here in Sweden who first was in a block with Aldolfo/Detcom and then wound up deadly enemies trying to set each other up for the cops. Over and above this Rolf was claiming that I was agent of Social imperialism (meaning Russia) and was working with the Swqedish secret police to get me as and enemy of the Swedish people! This got him dumped from the lists at Jefferson Village. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sat Jun 3 11:25:00 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:25:00 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Dialectics of Nature Message-ID: Seems to me that a main advantage that early humans had was their SOCIALITY, especially in terms of language, including "messages" from previous generations. As Marx says, the main distinction between human labor and that of a spider or bee is imagination. A spiderweb or beehive is a pretty nice tool. A bigger brain seems inherently an adaptive advantage, whether helping with tools or organizing the social dimensions of a hunting party or just conceiving of and remembering the behavior of predators or prey. weather conditons and all survival factors. Mate selection is directly social. Furthermore, the lengthening of the period of infancy/childhood is uniquely human. Women seem the best candidates for "accomplishing" this long childhood, with its import for sociality. Engels would have done better to focus on the role of lengthening of childhood in the transition from ape to human. But there are few fossils of that, unlike stone tools. In _The German Ideology_, Engels and Marx name the division of labor between women and men as the original division of labor, and then drop it for the division of labor between head and hand. This is quite a mysogynist dialectic. At any rate, Engels seems motivated by his (correct) partisanship for modern laborers of the hand in focusing on old stone age tools (and afterall the remains of stone tools are much more abundant than that of ancient social organization). But there was no division of labor between laborers of head and hand during the transition from apes to humans. The materialist conception of history does not apply until the rise of class society. Charles Brown >>> James Farmelant 01/27 11:39 AM In fairness to Engels though I think his essay on the role of labor in human origins was an important contribution to anthropology. Engels took up Haeckel's hypothesis that the adoption of tool-use by early humans was the key to understanding the relatively rapid evolution of larger brains in early humans, and reinterpreted it in light of the materialist conception of history. Engels' argument was formulated largely in Lamarckian terms (since back then virtually all evolutionists, even Darwin, were to some degree Lamarckians). However, Engels' theory, it seems can be reformulated along strictly Darwinian lines (which gives rise to interesting questions on how the rise of tool-using cultures among our primate ancestors created "selection pressures" that favored larger brains. For example what was the role of mate selection in this evolution?) Jim Farmelant > > > --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Dialectics of Nature Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:42:53 -0500 Size: 4218 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sat Jun 3 11:28:20 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:28:20 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: M-TH: Marx on chemists and "natural science" Message-ID: >>> Chris Burford 01/12 4:34 PM >> Good find. Yes I agree that looks like a bulls eye, although no doubt still incredible for the incredulous Andrew. I just feel his further comments are so evasive as to lack intellectual integrity, and his approach to scholarship must be called into question although in a better way than was done on Marxism-and-Sciences. Generally I have found Andrew irritating in political argument but it has been a great spur to study. It is important to keep focussed on the list as a whole and avoid getting frustrated by his inability to accept that the point we are arguing is reasonable, along with most other people who thought they were marxist this century. It would be unmarxist however to think that all arguments can be resolved by logic alone. I have spent about an hour checking the texts and hope the following is useful. The International page reference (for me also on p309 of the Lawrence and Wishart edition) is on p423-424 of the Penguin edition. But first the German, in case anyone wishes to suggest that more rigorous scholarship would dissolve away this irrational excess on Marx's part. I trust Hugh will confirm the accuracy of the translation in the text Charles gives. (Fowkes's addition of "by a dialectical inversion" appears to be his own and not necessarily a feature of quantitative changes turning into qualitative ones although correct in signalling to the reader that of course Hegel's Logik was a work of dialectics.) Here is the text as in the German which follows the 4th edition and *in that* is Chapter 9 - page 327 Dietz Verlag Berlin, 11th edition, Vol 1. "Hier, wie in der Naturwissenschaft, bewaehrt sich die Richtigkeit des von Hegel in seiner 'Logik' entdeckten Gesetzes, dass bloss quantitive Veraenderungen auf einem gewissen Punkt in qualitative Unterschiede umschlagen." The scientific comparison between the social sciences and the natural sciences is irrefutable, and in the context of Hegel's dialectical work. (Or will Andrew bumptiously suggest that Marx forgot that fact, and that Andrew's interpretation should in any case be regarded as much more interesting? Marx's personal responsibility for the statement is also clear (evidenced that Engels corrects it in an addition to the footnote in the third edition.) Marx's footnote reads: "The molecular theory of modern chemistry first scientifically worked out by Laurent and Gerhardt rests on no other law." Engels's Addition in the 3rd Edition:- "For the explanation of this statement, which is not very clear to nonchemists, we remark that the author speaks here of the homologous series of carbon compounds, first so named by C. Gerhardt in 1843, each series of which has its own general algebraic formula. Thus the series of paraffins: CnH2n+2, that of the normal alcohols: CnH2n+2O; of the normal fatty acids: CnH2nO2 and many others. In the above examples, by the simply quantitative addition of CH2 to the molecular formula, a qualitatively different body is each time formed. On the share (overestimated by Marx) of Laurent and Gerhardt in the determination of this important fact see Kopp, "Entwicklung der Chemie." Munchen, 1873, pp. 709, 716, and Schorkmmer, 'The Rise and Development of Organic Chemistry." London, 1879, p. 54. -- F. E." Thus Engels slightly corrects the enthusiasm with which Marx endorsed the research of Laurent and Gerhardt, but of course does not correct the vindication by Marx of the relevance of this dialectical law from Hegel for the natural sciences. Incredible. Chris Burford London. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: Re: M-TH: Marx on chemists and "natural science" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:55:45 -0500 Size: 5485 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sat Jun 3 11:29:06 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:29:06 -0400 Subject: Fwd: M-TH: Re: The exactitude of nature & Hegel on Kant Message-ID: Rob, Here are some comments: >>> Rob Schaap 01/13 9:34 AM >>> G'day Thaxists, Just wondering if I got any of the following wrong. The possibility of real historical change in the world comes with the introduction of philosophy into it, no? Human beings, and nothing else, can author real historical change - change by and for humanity. ______ Charles: I'm not sure what you mean by "real" history. Philosophy starts with the Greeks 2500 years ago ( I won't do my Afrocentered thing on how there is a lot of philosophy in Egypt before that; See _Stolen Legacy_ for example). There was a lot of human history before that. Also, there is natural history. Marx says in the first Preface to Capital that for him political economy is an extension of natural history. Nature has a history. That is a dialectical understanding of it. Darwin supplies a big jolt to get beyond creationism, i.e. every species created at one time and not having history. Kant demonstrated that the solar system has a history. _________ Without conscious human reproduction/transformation, there is only pre-history. History therefore begins only when humanity has its hands on the wheel and knows it has it there. ______ Charles: Only humans can make things-in-themselves into things-for-us. ______ The application of correct philosophical method to the real stuff of the world is the prerequisite for real change. In other words, applying the dialectic to the material, (the notion of thesis, antithesis and synthesis applied to society, whose reproduction has ever been based upon internal - and dynamically stressful, and therefore immanently changeable - allocations of control over its economic order) is the first step into history. _______ Charles: Oh I see. You are talking about Marx's comment that we have been in pre-history while class struggle unconsciously determined changes. However, in this case it is the working class overthrowing the bourgeoisie and ALL class society that begins real history. Marx and Engels seemed to phrase it that their discovery of materialist dialectics was a reflection of the rise of the capitalism and the proletariat,not that their applying philosophy to the world makes the change. _______ Comradely, Charles I may not have put it as uncontentiously well as it could be put, but it is my suspicion my bits of clumsy paraphrasing come close to describing the guts of the politics shared by most assembled here. And if that's right, we gotta ask why we're getting so hot under the collar on the relationship between the dialectic and materialism, don't we? And if I'm wrong, I'm about to blush prettily and mebbe learn something of significance ... for a change. Cheers, Rob. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: M-TH: Re: The exactitude of nature & Hegel on Kant Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:42:07 -0500 Size: 4085 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sat Jun 3 11:30:26 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:30:26 -0400 Subject: Fwd: M-TH: Re: The exactitude of nature & Hegel on Kant Message-ID: Elegant (of refined taste or manner), but inexact James F posits human knowing that is outside of human history. There is nonesuch. Every act of human knowing is part of human history. Since, James F. accepts that human history is dialectical, all human knowing is dialectical, including human knowing of natural history or nature. Humans only know things-in-themselves as things-for-us. Things-for-us only come from human practice (Second Thesis on Feuerbach) which is part of human history. Human history is dialectical, thus human practice is dialectical. All things-for-us are dialectical. Jim F. commits the same error as Russ, who posits human interest in and knowledge of things with which humans NEVER have any interaction. But we know nothing of that which we have no interaction, no practice (2nd Thesis on F.). Actually, Jim has it sort of backward below. It is not that natural history is dialectical because human history is emergent from natural history. It is that all of human knowledge is part of human history, and human history is dialectical, thus human knowledge of nature is dialectical. For vulgar marxism, Charles Brown >>> James Farmelant 01/13 9:57 AM >>> I think that Russ just about sums up the fallacy that underlies the arguments of the believers in the dialectics of nature. Hugh's arguments are substantively the same as those of Charles or Chris though phrased a bit more elegantly. In any case both Charles and Chris have been committing the same type of fallacy when they argue that since history is dialectical and since human history is emergent out of natural history therefore natural history must be dialectical. Jim Farmelant On Wed, 13 Jan 99 13:19:50 +0000 Russ writes: >Deary me Hugh, > >What is the substance of your argument but that: > >Consciousness is dialectical. >Consciousness is ultimately natural. >Diddly-dee: >The natural is dialectical. > >? > >Pardon me Hugh, isn't this to render the social, i.e the realm of the >political, meaningless? > > >Russ > >PS what did you toast Spinoza with - it wasn't the yellow snow from >out >the back of the shaman's tent by any chance? > >pip hic desparandum > > > --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- > -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: M-TH: Re: The exactitude of nature & Hegel on Kant Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:14:08 -0500 Size: 3877 URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sat Jun 3 11:31:05 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:31:05 -0400 Subject: Fwd: e: M-TH: dialectical nature? Message-ID: >>> Hugh Rodwell 01/12 7:56 a completely false wedge driven between Engels the primitive simpleton (Marx's dupe, fall-guy and bankroller all in one) _______ Charles: On this thread, sometimes it seems to be the reverse: Marx as genius but dupe of Engels. Engels is usually portrayed as vulgar materialist along with Lenin, but here they are calling him an idealist and theologian. I think a root of this is anti-Leninism. It is hard to get Lenin out of it without throwing out Engels too, as they did most of the work on the philosophical issues in dispute on this thread. The bourgeois universities will tolerate "Marxism" as long as it is not Leninism. In fact, they like to have "Marxism" in a cage to study it to oppose it more effectively. Charles I ________ _____ What's more all our worthies forgot that Marx and Engels frequently point out that revolutionary materialism smuggles its own concept of matter into the Hegelian concept of God. Or in reality, don't smuggle it in but declare openly that this concept of matter stands Hegel's idealism on its feet, transforming it into a powerful combatant in the revolutionary struggle. I think also that a lot of all this confusion springs from the failure to come to terms with Stalinism as a consistently and comprehensively reactionary and treacherous leadership and mass political tendency and set of social institutions. Any attempt to define dialectical materialism that considers Stalinist products as prima facie Marxist contributions is hoping to grow pineapples outdoors at the south pole. It may well be the case that people working in Stalinist institutions have produced useful stuff -- Lukacs himself is a case in point if you use the right radiation tongs and protective clothing -- but this must be judged in the light of the genuine Marxist-Leninist tradition and not the Stalinist perversion of it. Cheers, Hugh -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles Brown" Subject: e: M-TH: dialectical nature? Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:10 -0500 Size: 3255 URL: From poseidon at eircom.net Sat Jun 3 01:47:36 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:47:36 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Lenin Message-ID: <001a01bfcd97$ccb17180$f1fe869f@oemcomputer> I lifted this observation from a piece on Lenin by Louis Proyect. Does anybody have any views concerning it. Surely it is not a view that is widely held within marxism-Leninism: "The Bolsheviks were free to criticize party positions publicly as long as they acted in a disciplined fashion with respect to demonstrations, strikes and other *actions*." Louis' view, as I understand it, is that Iskra was a paper in which different tendencies within marxism were free to present their views. His piece to be found on his website merits study as a basis for discussion of the subject of the Leninist organisational form since it raises issues that are of significance even if his overall conception may be wrong. I will download his article to the list presently. Warm regards George Pennefather Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Be free to subscribe to our Communist Think-Tank mailing community by simply placing subscribe in the body of the message at the following address: mailto:rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Sat Jun 3 13:49:58 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 20:49:58 +0100 Subject: M-TH: African economics Message-ID: <001c01bfcd97$e1cfa1e0$f1fe869f@oemcomputer> New York Times World Bank Cites Itself in Study of Africa's Bleak Performance June 1, 2000 World Bank Cites Itself in Study of Africa's Bleak Performance By JOSEPH KAHN ASHINGTON, May 31 -- Devastated by war, corruption and disease, people in sub-Saharan Africa live less well today than they did in the 1960's, and aid donors have to share the blame, the World Bank said in a comprehensive study issued today. The report, prepared jointly with the United Nations and African development institutions, said Ghana, Mozambique and Uganda were among a handful of African nations that have piloted a way out of extreme poverty. But it says that with AIDS, malaria and civil strife rising, conditions in the region as a whole are worsening. The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, the two leading international lending agencies, have come under intense scrutiny over their multibillion-dollar African aid programs. Protesters who ran noisy demonstrations in Washington at the spring meetings of the bank and the fund said the two institutions had made Africa poorer through failed policies, a position that the bank's analysis partly vindicates. The 280-page report acknowledges that the heavy flow of aid in recent decades did relatively little to ignite sustained economic growth, but the study adds that the World Bank has reinvented how it manages aid. "The temptation is to retreat into pessimism," the bank's vice president for Africa, Callisto E. Madavo, said. "But I think if you look at what we have been doing recently, you can see that we're really on the right track." Sub-Saharan Africa is the only major region that moved backward in the later decades of 20th century, says the report, which catalogs the many woes while prescribing some remedies. In the early 1960's, African nations were widely considered more advanced than East Asian nations. But between that time and the end of the 90's, Africa retreated in real economic terms, while East Asia's economic output increased fourfold. Today, sub-Saharan Africa's 48 nations have a collective economic output that does not much surpass that of Belgium. Poland alone has more roads. Africa's share of world trade has steadily declined to less than 2 percent. Africa depends more on foreign aid today than ever, the reports says. Loans and grants from rich nations account for 10 percent of total economic activity, and a heavy debt burden constrains the ability of governments to put their fiscal houses in order. Infectious diseases like malaria and AIDS take more of a toll now than at any time since the early part of the 20th century. Africa accounts for 70 percent of the AIDS cases reported around the world. Even if progress against the disease is made, experts expect AIDS to reduce the average African life expectancy by 20 years, erasing all the gains since World War II. Endemic corruption and war, including the conflicts in Ethiopia as well as western and central Africa, are the main causes of the bleak performance, the report says. But the World Bank accepts some blame. The report says the bank and its sister agencies have wasted billions on ill-conceived projects. Even when projects were carefully managed, they sometimes competed with national governments, drawing talented bureaucrats and leaving nations "project rich and cash poor," it says. The bank calls on rich countries to open their markets to imports of African goods. Wealthy nations collectively spend $300 billion to subsidize and protect their own farmers against foreign competition, the report says, a figure that is as large Africa's total economic output. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From cburford at gn.apc.org Sat Jun 3 17:41:19 2000 From: cburford at gn.apc.org (Chris Burford) Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 00:41:19 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Is Chris Buford here? In-Reply-To: <00a401bfcd23$b5e9a180$c9e4a3c3@zelda> References: <000101bfcc53$f554f200$fdff869f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20000604004000.02d1fa90@pop.gn.apc.org> No, Chris Burford is not here. Or only here long enough to say that I am going away for a week. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz Sun Jun 4 06:15:04 2000 From: davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz (davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 00:15:04 +1200 Subject: M-TH: The Coup in Fiji Message-ID: <200006041207.AAA09481@planet.ak.planet.gen.nz> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 10245 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sun Jun 4 11:01:59 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 13:01:59 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Down with Imperialism in the Western Hemisphere Message-ID: I'm off to protest the OAS. CB --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From malecki at mail.bip.net Sun Jun 4 23:40:37 2000 From: malecki at mail.bip.net (Bob Malecki) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 07:40:37 +0200 Subject: M-TH: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Workers_Power_and_the_Nazi=B4s!?= References: Message-ID: <000401bfceb3$37d902e0$2a3ffea9@bob> As you read this article the members of the Swedish Workers Power Group as well as other left groups in Sweden, are now debating with the Nazi?s On the swedish "communism" list at kommunism at egroups.com. In fact the moderaters of this list have openly invited this scum to take part in a debate because it appears that some of the "left" youth organizations like "Red Youth" have blocked with the Nazi?s in and attempt to drive a list/chat/irc network in a certain direction. The so called Communist Nazi group which can be found at the homepage at www.kamrat-josef.org has on its program a number of interesting points beyond the fact that there leaders claim to be "National Socialists" of the kind found before Hitler. They oppose abortion. Oppose drugs much like the New York City cops. And talk about class and fatherland! In there own words they say.. "And authoritarian socialist takes always a position against criminality, bourgeois decadence, multi-culture marriage, and other stuff that does not fit a proud worker." and "And authorritarian socialist gets engaged in local politics and fights for a segregated living standard, local criminality, vandalism, trotskyism, drugs and see that our working brothers and sisters can live safely in the area. This includes naturally protecting the youth from robbers, drugpushers, pedophiles, and others foremost in big cities who can move in from other multi-cultural areas." (!!!!!!!) And Workers Power and other "left" groups want to debate this scum! This is just one of the many groups of New Nazi?s groups now flourishing in Sweden after ten years of downsizing, cross burning and cold blooded murder of immigrants. In fact the enormous growth of Nazi ideologi, white power music, Nazi symbols etc amongst youth has had a dramatic rise which in size can almost be compared to the youth radicalization of the sixties. Unfortunately in the wrong direction. Here in my commune for example in only one school we recently had over 25 youth who are interested in this stuff and spend their time watching Nazi propaganda films, hearing white power music, and carving Nazi symbols into there arms with razor blades. And not in the least poor working class youth who have suffered most from ten years of Social Democratic dismantling of the welfare state are being attracted to this scum. It also led to a massive mobilization and largest demonstration against this scum that this town has seen in over ten years and made the front pages of all the newspapers, news and local TV stations. Meanwhile the "left" including Workers Power now invite them in to this swedish "communist" list for debate and are debating them claiming that this debate is going to be very long. In fact they are part of the so called Swedish "communist" ring on the net and are connected to the ring of many "left" organizations and people. It also is a well know fact that the Nazi?s collect names of leftists who oppose them to add to there list for elimination. It also leads to telephone calls and death threats. Well, I hope that the entire international left joins me in making sure that the Workers Power group and other "left" organizations who think one can debate with Nazi?s are wrong. I call on all of you whether you can read Swedish or not to subscribe to the "communism egroups list at egroups com and stop this shit. Just go to "kommunism-unsubscribe at eGroups.com" stop the Nazi?s. You can also condemn Workers Power and other left groups who think that discussing with Nazi scum is a viable tactic. The same scum who engage in terror and murder against immigrants. No platform for Nazi scum. By the way the greens here in Sweden officially at there party congress yesterday past a motion saying that the Nazi?s must be met with "open debate" and not repression and forbidding them. That "peace,love and understanding will win in the end. Well the Nazi?s concentration camps in Aushwitch is there real program and never will we allow this scum to raise its head again. Warm regards Bob Malecki ------------------------------------------------------- Check Out My HomePage where you can, Read or download the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my Crystalball! and "Radiotime"-the Book! Now the Official International Communist League Page! Or Get The Latest Issue of COCKROACH, a zine for poor and working-class people. http://home.bip.net/malecki http://www.algonet.se/~malecki Email Email ------------------------------------------------------- --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz Tue Jun 6 05:02:40 2000 From: davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz (davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:02:40 +1200 Subject: M-TH: (Fwd) Denouce the Fujnimori's dictatorship Message-ID: <200006061055.WAA00133@planet.ak.planet.gen.nz> We forward this report from Poder Obrero in Peru about Fujimori's repression since the elections. We send after a call to denounce the repression of the dictatorship to the workers, the youth and the people who reject the liar elections in Peru. The police killed a youth who protest the last week, and hurt 150 persons, and kidnap and dissapear 12 students, and took to the jails 500 persons who protest against the dictatorship, Now some cities are militarizadas. We are calling to the parties and the left groups to denounce the repression in Peru. excuse my english. Saludos trotskystas. Rodrigo Diaz. militante de Poder Obrero Peru ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz Tue Jun 6 05:04:48 2000 From: davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz (davidb at ak.planet.gen.nz) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:04:48 +1200 Subject: M-TH: (Fwd) Fwd: Denunciar a la dictadura civil-militar por la repre Message-ID: <200006061057.WAA00250@planet.ak.planet.gen.nz> We forward this report from Poder Obrero in Peru. Subject: Fwd: Denunciar a la dictadura civil-militar por la represion y detenciones. Date sent: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:33:11 PDT >Companheros: > Los trabajadores, los estudiantes, los campesinos, las madres de los >comedores populares y los desempleados del Peru, rechazando la farsa >electoral de la dictadura civil-militar encabezada por Fujimori, salieron a >protestar a lo largo y ancho del Peru. Esta legitima protesta frente a la >ilegal postulacion de Fujimori y el fraudulento sufragio, congrego a >cientos de miles de trabajadores y pobladores que fueron fuertemente >reprimidos por las fuerzas Armadas y fuerzas policiales dejando un muerto >y ciento cincuenta heridos ademas de miles de personas afectadas por los >gases lacrimogenos y vomitivos que lanzaron por millares las fuerzas >policiales. > >Estas jornadas de protesta contra la dictadura que todavia continuan han >dejado el saldo de 500 detenidos, quienes estan siendo procesados por la >justicia de la dictadura. tambien como en la etapa terrorista de este >regimen criminal han desaparecido a 11 estudiantes de las universidades de >Tacna y de Huancayo y han establecido el acosos policial y el >amendrentamiento a los activistas conocidos. Ademas se han militarizado las ciudades donde el movimiento antidictatorial es mas >organizado y masivo, y estamos ad-portas de la declaracion del estado de >emergencia para amedrentar y reprimir masivamente a los trabajadores y al >pueblo movilizado. > >En la medida que la confrontacion del pueblo contra la dictadura tiende a >agudizarse las medidas represivas que establezca el dictador Fujimori cada >vez seran mayores. > >Convocamos a los trabajadores y a los companheros militantes de >organizaciones gremiales y politicas que representan a la clase obrera y >el pueblo a denunciar la represion y militarizacion que ha establecido la >dictadura civil-militar encabezada por Fujimori, a solidarizarse con los >detenidos de las jornadas de protesta y a denunciar rtanbien la >intervencion del Imperialismo Yanki, quien pretende ser el arbitro de la >crisis politica en el Peru negociando la estabilidad politica que favorece >a los planes de perpetuacion dictatorial o al recambio por el >ex-funcionario del banco mundial y titere del Imperialismo, Toledo. > > Los convocamos a la solidaridad Internacionalista, con la clase obrera y >el pueblo peruano. >saludos Fraternales y revolucionarios. > Poder obrero Peru. seccion peruana del cemicor. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From 74742.1651 at CompuServe.COM Tue Jun 6 18:17:10 2000 From: 74742.1651 at CompuServe.COM (neil) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:17:10 -0400 Subject: M-TH: AUT: The AFL/CIO, a new friend of Immigrants? Message-ID: <200006062019_MC2-A79C-404@compuserve.com> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: INTERNET:aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu, INTERNET:aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu TO: Angela, INTERNET:rcollins at netlink.com.au CC: autopsy, INTERNET:aut-op-sy at jefferson.village.virginia.edu "Neil C.", 74742,1651 DATE: 6/5/00 4:39 PM RE: AUT: The AFL/CIO, a new friend of Immigrants? Sender: owner-aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by sphmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) with SMTP id TAA17671 for <74742.1651 at compuserve.com>; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.village.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa09469; 5 Jun 2000 19:35 EDT Received: (from domo at localhost) by lists.village.virginia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0) id XAA38858 for aut-op-sy-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:34:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: lists.village.virginia.edu: domo set sender to owner-aut-op-sy at localhost using -f Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by lists.village.virginia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA35268 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:34:39 -0400 Received: from jefferson.village.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa08639; 5 Jun 2000 19:34 EDT Received: from sphmgaaf.compuserve.com (hs-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.177.155]) by jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA19288 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate at localhost) by sphmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id TAA09461; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:31:00 -0400 From: neil <74742.1651 at compuserve.com> Subject: AUT: The AFL/CIO, a new friend of Immigrants? To: Angela Cc: autopsy , "Neil C." <74742.1651 at compuserve.com> Message-ID: <200006051933_MC2-A77E-9E6B at compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu Angela; Sorry you had problems finding the leaflet nailing the AF of L. --but it is posted on Internationalists Web (http://www.ibrp.org) both as new update material dtd 6/5/00 and in the LA Workers Voice section too. so i will send you a copy as well as one for the Autopsy List. Comments and debate are welcomed. Neil Communist-left IBRP ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: neil, 74742,1651 DATE: 6/4/00 12:38 AM RE: Sender: owner-aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by sphmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) with SMTP id TAA17671 for <74742.1651 at compuserve.com>; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.village.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa09469; 5 Jun 2000 19:35 EDT Received: (from domo at localhost) by lists.village.virginia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0) id XAA38858 for aut-op-sy-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:34:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: lists.village.virginia.edu: domo set sender to owner-aut-op-sy at localhost using -f Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by lists.village.virginia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA35268 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:34:39 -0400 Received: from jefferson.village.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa08639; 5 Jun 2000 19:34 EDT Received: from sphmgaaf.compuserve.com (hs-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.177.155]) by jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA19288 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate at localhost) by sphmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id TAA09461; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:31:00 -0400 From: neil <74742.1651 at compuserve.com> Subject: AUT: The AFL/CIO, a new friend of Immigrants? To: Angela Cc: autopsy , "Neil C." <74742.1651 at compuserve.com> Message-ID: <200006051933_MC2-A77E-9E6B at compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu Angela; Sorry you had problems finding the leaflet nailing the AF of L. --but it is posted on Internationalists Web (http://www.ibrp.org) both as new update material dtd 6/5/00 and in the LA Workers Voice section too. so i will send you a copy as well as one for the Autopsy List. Comments and debate are welcomed. Neil Communist-left IBRP ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: neil, 74742,1651 DATE: 6/4/00 12:38 AM RE: The AFL/CIO, a new friend of Immigrants? After supporting most all repressive US government anti-immigrant regulations and actions for many decades , the AFL/CIO trade union federation's executive council is seemingly doing a 180 degree turn and now will support "regulated legal immigration" , an amnesty for all undocumented workers inside US borders and as well claims it will no longer co-operate with the regular round-ups and other US Immigration and Naturalization (La Migra) actions against immigrants. If the AFL's new positions were sincere, it would mean it is turning over a new leaf. The federation now says, " the AFL/CIO proudly stands on the side of immigrant workers." Is the AFL sincere in dumping overboard its experienced massed political artillery of anti-immigrant chauvinism? How does this change fit into the present needs of the US bosses/government whom the AFL is so loyal to? What is the actual track record? It is almost common knowledge that for decades the AFL/CIO stance on immigrants was in line with some of the most racist and ultra-nationalist forces of our capitalist rulers. Part of this was the old lying saw that "illegals are taking jobs away from American workers, driving wages down, and making conditions of work deteriorate." And " Immigrant Aliens" were also said to be used by companies to break strikes and weaken AFL union organizing drives. Time and again, the AFL backed reactionary legislation in state legislatures and in Congress. Obviously , it was the AFL itself that was making the rounds parroting the bosses divide and rule lies. It could have exposed/fought this reactionary drivel if it really wanted to build workers unity and struggle against the attacks of the rich. But the AFL-CIO is basically a big labor merchandizing organization that backs the wages system and the rule of capital, lock, stock and barrel. Bonafide workers organizations expose poverty, unemployment, and anti-immigrant chauvinism as the product of the domination of capitalist social relations, wage slavery, class rule and production not for human needs, but instead for sales and profits. The AFL, in its long history of hostility to the undocumented workers was driven mainly by its interests as a negotiator of the price of the commodity labor-power. In the past the AFL considered the undocumented workers almost like lepers. It thought it had more fertile and profitable fields for its "organizing" in industries that did not have significant numbers of immigrant labor. But in the last 20 years there have been big changes in the world capitalist economy. There has been enormous privatization of industries, contracting-out to small non-union shops by huge previously unionized firms. Now there is vast globalization of capitalist production and the movement of big companies to other capitalist and state capitalist countries where the costs of labor-power are much cheaper , raw materials close by & available to plunder, and workers controlled in even more slavelike conditions than in the "free" USA. The unions have pleaded poverty for the bosses and have shoved many concessions contracts down their own members throats. Unions accepting concessions to --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Sat Jun 10 03:43:50 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:43:50 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Minority Movement Message-ID: <000001bfd2ec$538679e0$d9fe869f@a> Hi Do you know where there is electronic material on the Minority Movememt that existed in the UK in the twenties? It was connected with the trade union movement. George -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4646 bytes Desc: not available URL: From m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se Tue Jun 13 01:54:48 2000 From: m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se (Hugh Rodwell) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:54:48 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Fw: Leonard Peltier Reviewed for Parole Message-ID: From the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee. White Man still speaking with forked tongue when it comes to justice and due process. Hugh ************************ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: June 12, 2000 LEONARD PELTIER REVIEWED FOR PAROLE United States Parole Examiner Refuses to Consider New Evidence Native American rights activist, Leonard Peltier was reviewed for parole today during a hearing held at Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary in Kansas. The hearing was held to determine whether there is any reason why the Parole Commission should change their 1993 decision to deny Peltier parole. Today Peltier's representatives told the Commission that Peltier's health, serious family needs, and his positive program achievements were all reasons for the Commission to reconsider their denial of parole to Peltier. They also argued that the Commission's original decision to deny parole was wrong. They said the Commission has yet to justify their reasons for denying his release in excess of what their guidelines recommend. The Parole Examiner refused to read a report from Dr. Peter Basch who, after reviewing Peltier's recent medical records, determined that problems with Peltier's health could result in "recurrent central retinal vein occlusion, stroke, heart disease, and kidney failure." The doctor also noted that several of Mr. Peltier's health problems had not been treated appropriately by prison medical staff. Attending the parole hearing were representatives for Amnesty International, the National Council of Churches, the National Congress of American Indians, and the Assembly of First Nations. Legal council included attorneys Jennifer Harbury, Carl Nadler, and former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark. Jean Ann Day, survivor of the Pine Ridge "reign of terror" also testified. The Parole examiner did not respond to pleas from Amnesty International or the National Council of Churches, and he showed no interest in the eight parole plans offering Peltier housing and employment from various Native Organizations and tribes. Furthermore, the examiner refused to accept or consider the 10,000 letters collected over the last three months from US citizens, human rights organizations, luminaries and members of the international community supporting Peltier's release. Without deliberation or the consideration of any documents presented, the parole examiner recommended that Peltier's sentence be continued until his next full parole hearing in 2008. Those in attendance reported that the examiner wrote the denial while the presentation was still being made. Peltier's defense council will continue to protest the Parole Commission's denial of parole to Peltier in federal court. Supporters will continue efforts to gain Peltier's release through a grant of Executive Clemency. Leonard Peltier was originally convicted for the murders of two FBI agents on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. However, formerly withheld documents supporting Peltier's innocence would later force the prosecution to admit that they could not prove who actually killed the agents. Despite this, Peltier has remained in prison for 24 years. Amnesty International considers him to be a political prisoner who should be immediately released. Call the White House Comments Line Today Demand Justice for Leonard Peltier! 202-456-1111 Leonard Peltier Defense Committee PO Box 583 Lawrence, KS 66044 785-842-5774 www.freepeltier.org To subscribe, send a blank message to < lpdc-on at mail-list.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se Tue Jun 13 02:33:47 2000 From: m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se (Hugh Rodwell) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:33:47 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Paul Wright, Editor of Prison Legal News Needs Help! Message-ID: More on the workings of bourgeois "justice" and "democracy" in the US. Hugh *********************** >Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 > >Paul Wright, Editor of Prison Legal News Needs Help > >Paul Wright, editor of Prison Legal News and Jailhouse Lawyer Vice >President of the National Lawyers Guild, is urgently asking for your help. > >Paul, who is incarcerated in Washington state, has been placed in >segregation for the disciplinary infraction of having too many envelopes >in his cell. Prison officials are hoping to use this absurd rule >violation allegation to place Paul in the isolation unit for several >months and then transfer him to a higher-security facility (Paul is >currently in a minimum-security prison). > >The situation is as follows: during a recent cell search, guards found 70 >envelopes in Paul's two-person cell. Prisoners are allowed to possess 40 >envelopes each. Paul was taken before the disciplinary court, where he >testified that 34 of the envelopes were his. His cellmate testified that >the remaining 36 belonged to him. Nevertheless, Paul was found guilty of >possessing too many envelopes and sentenced to 10 days' cell confinement. > >Then, on Wednesday, Paul was transferred to segregation and informed that >he is facing new disciplinary charges for "lying" when he testified at the >hearing that he had fewer than 40 envelopes. If he is found guilty of >lying, he will no longer be eligible for minimum-security status. If that >happens, he expects to be held in an isolation cell for at least two >months before being transferred to a more restrictive prison. > >Since Wednesday, Paul has been held mostly incommunicado. He was able to >make a couple of telephone calls on Friday, but he still has not been >allowed to contact his lawyer. > >The current charges are the latest in a long series of measures the >Washington DOC has undertaken against Paul, all of which have been >directed towards making it more difficult for him to publish Prison Legal >News. PLN, which recently celebrated its 10th anniversary, has a long >history of exposing brutality, mismanagement and other crimes perpetrated >by DOC officials across the country. > >Paul is asking all of us to make two phone calls to try to get him out of >this situation. This is the first time in many years that Paul has asked >for individual help for himself. He asks that people call Alice Payne, >the Superintendent of the McNeil Island Correctional Center, at >(253) 588-5281, and Joseph Lehman, Secretary of the Washington DOC, at >(360) 753-2500. > >Tell them that you want them to 1) release Paul from segregation and drop >the charges against him; 2) stop punishing Paul for exercising his legal >rights (publishing PLN, filing lawsuits, and defending himself at a >disciplinary hearing); and 3) allow him to call his attorney. > >For more information, contact Scott Fleming, National Lawyers Guild Prison >Law Project, at (510) 595-8264, scott at prisonactivist.org. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Tue Jun 13 09:54:55 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:54:55 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Fwd: Neuropsychosociology Message-ID: 'INDUSTRIAL PSYCHOPATHS' CAN THRIVE IN BUSINESS Not all psychopaths end up in prison. Some climb the corporate ladder swiftly and quite successfully, Paul Babiak, PhD, said at the annual meeting of the American Neuropsychiatric Association. Read it Here: http://psychiatry.medscape.com/22596.rhtml -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Ambrose Andrews Subject: Neuropsychosociology Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:22:16 +0000 Size: 1486 URL: From poseidon at eircom.net Tue Jun 13 01:17:43 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:17:43 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Football: the money game Message-ID: <000601bfd5c7$df4f7d40$beff869f@a> Last updated: Thu, Jun 8, 2000 Football; the money game [Workers Power Britain June 2000] This month television screens across the continent will be dominated by Euro 2000. This footballing feast involves much more than just watching men kick a ball around. England manager, Kevin Keegan, stands to earn quite a few bob from Euro 2000 - but only if his team are knocked out early! He is under contract to appear on ITV's Euro 2000 coverage as soon as England are out of the competition. This little fact speaks volumes about the new ethos at the heart of modern football. Though a rich man, Keegan is but a small fish swimming in a sea of capitalist sharks from the ITV executives through to the multinational corporate sponsors shelling out for advertising time. At the beginning of the twentieth century football was patronised by big business. Bosses saw in major sporting events an opportunity to enhance their prestige - and therefore market share - at both a local and national level. The situation today is very different. Television rights, sponsorship, ownership and advertising are all sources of profit. The principal mass spectator sports have become big business in their own right: football clubs are floated on the stock exchange; television rights to coverage involve billions of pounds and huge returns for clubs and television companies; sponsorship rewards individual players and clubs, while the companies paying for it are gu aranteed regular adverts to audiences numbering millions. Players change clubs for millions and are paid grossly inflated salaries. Supporters' paraphernalia is now a multi-million pound, superstore-led operation. In the early days the British ruling class used football - which originated at Eton - to try and instil team spirit and Christian discipline in the "respectable" working class. Its popularity as a mass spectator sport grew in the late nineteenth century, especially in the urban industrial areas of northern England and Scotland. With the growth of sport as mass spectacle came the spread of professionalism. The "amateur gentleman" status of sport came under threat from workers who earned their living by playing. There was a massive conflict in cricket, which the Times called "class war", that saw the northern professionals refuse to play the southern gentleman amateurs and the MCC respond by banning the professionals from Lords. The Football Association (the FA - the game's ruling body, to this day made up by ruling class appointees from Oxbridge, the public schools, the armed services and the Commonwealth!) proved more adept at compromise, licensing professionalism via the Football League, but ensuring that it retained overall control of the game. The working class crowd disrupted the idea of the "harmless" entertainment of the football match. The game had been dominated for years by the Old Etonians, the Old Corinthians and such like. Then the industrial city clubs came of age with Blackburn winning the FA cup in 1883. Ever since no gentlemen amateur team has ever won the competition, and the bourgeoisie took note of the danger the "northern" (i.e. working class) crowd posed. The football hooligan was invented when the Pall Mall Gazette reported on the Blackburn fans arrival for the final: "A northern horde of uncouth garb and strange oaths - like a tribe of Sudanese Arabs let loose." These fiercely partisan crowds were not what the bourgeoisie had intended. They were vociferous. They drank on the way to the match. They were unruly and they solidarised with each other. These were the very first "hooligans" - so feared today but now because they may deter investors. Sensing the danger of football being taken over by the working class, the more far-sighted sections of the ruling class responded by re-organising the clubs as limited companies, run by unelected boards. That way the crowd could be used as a source of income - a captive paying audience. The crowd could also be manipulated, not only financially, but in terms of uniting behind the team at the expense of their own class interests. West Ham United, for example, was set up by Arnold Hill after a strike at the local ironworks so as to promote class peace among his workforce. And if this local chauvinism could be used to blind workers to their independent class interests then the same could be done on a national basis. National sporting teams could encourage jingoism and loyalty to the empire. By the start of the last century the objective in promoting sport had become integration of the working class - more especially the skilled working class - into the capitalist order. The great and the good of British imperialism realised that by identifying with sport - and in particular its great spectacles such as the FA cup - they could promote the nation and themselves. At the 1899 FA cup final Lord Roseberry, while presenting the cup, told the victorious Bury United captain: "This is the second year running you have had a distinguished cabinet minister amongst you to preside over this sport. It is good for football, and it is not bad for the cabinet minister." It was a short step from this to the attendance at the event by royalty in 1914 - a few months before the first world war broke out. Not accidentally, football grounds were then handed over to the War Office and half a million men were recruited to the army via football organisations. Patriotism was systematically built into the spectacle of the great sporting events. Royal attendance at the cup final forged a link between sport, royalty and the very idea of the nation. In came the national anthem and with it chauvinism. This trend not only kindles the sort of battles between rival national hooligans that both authorities and fans fear will erupt at Euro 2000. It also contributed to the blight of racism that still - despite the rise of black players in the last decade - plagues the game. The deliberate identification of sporting prowess with the nation?s morale encouraged this rapid growth of rabid nationalism and racism within sport. The ruling class may complain about the hooligan - but it fostered the ideology that fuels the hooligan's battles. Meanwhile, the state built sport into general education as part of its programme for inculcating discipline and subservience into working class youth. The bosses exploited the transformation of clubs and associations into companies by increasing the scope of their commercial activities. By the final quarter of the twentieth century business had really begun to emulate the example of North American companies and seized on the new opportunities for profit being opened up by football. Sponsorship money was pumped in. Mainly this was for advertising purposes, but the bosses noted a correlation between success on the pitch and morale (and therefore productivity) at work, a fact commented on by the Financial Times during Euro '96. Today these aspects of sport have become predominant. Football is the clearest example of this process - an evolution that mirrors capitalism?s own development. It has left behind its early local capit Football was in serious decline in the 1980s. Working class fans were treated as second class citizens by the clubs and the state alike. The terrible tragedy of Hillsborough - where poor conditions at a ground, combined with police hatred of working class supporters, left 97 Liverpool fans dead - exposed this clearly. To deal with the decline football?s governing bodies faced two choices: treat working class fans like human beings or turn away from them in order to refashion football as a middle class "entertainment", a money-spinning leisure industry. In reality, for the Thatcherite breed of pirate capitalists who were buying into football clubs (Alan Sugar, Peter Johnson, the Hall brothers and so on) as well as the toffs at the top of the FA, there was no question about the route football should take. The FA's position post-Hillsborough was clear: "The response of most [business] sectors has been to move upmarket, so as to follow the affluent middle class consumer. We strongly suggest that there is a message in this for football." Reports were commissioned which talked about football in terms of "brand image" and "quality product". Fans were re-titled "consumers". The bosses at the top clubs saw an opening. Clubs were floated on the stock market. The post-Hillsborough "Taylor Report" on safety at grounds became a convenient pretext. Its wide-ranging proposals for reform - including giving working class fans a say in the running of the game - were totally ignored. Only its proposal for all-seater stadia was acted on. This was viewed as a welcome opportunity to turn the grounds from centres where working class crowds gathered on terraces into entertainment complexes suitable for the new middle class target audience, complete with corporate hospitality boxes. Such boxes sell for ?15,000 a season at Villa Park where Aston Villa?s sponsors, Mueller Foods, entertain corporate clients. Better still, money for the transformation of the grounds came from outside the clubs, meaning minimal capital expenditure by the club owners. But there was a further problem. While the Football League (the professional wing of the game) has never been democratic, it had one progressive element that the FA had insisted on when the League was established in the nineteenth century - that some of its income would be redistributed to benefit football in general. The big clubs had to give small clubs some of their takings. The top dogs of the old First Division grew increasingly resentful of this, particularly given the newest source of big money - television, terrestrial and satellite. The early 1990s, therefore, saw the biggest transformation of football since the League first emerged - the creation of the Premiership. This was the true dawn of monopoly capital for the "beautiful game". This "epoch" sees football in Britain dominated by a tiny handful of super-rich clubs. It sees the transformation of the old competitions (like the FA Cup and the European Cup) into mere stepping stones towards big money games in a European super league. And it sees the withering of the game at a grass roots level, something that the executives who run today's clubs don't realise, is alienating the mass of supporters and choking off the supply of talent. How did this come about? In 1990 the then head of ITV, Labour supporter Greg Dyke, (now running the BBC) invited a handful of League chairmen to dinner and suggested the setting up of a breakaway League which would have sole rights to television revenue. Discussions and negotiations followed, and in 1992 the FA, itself now happy to undermine the old redistributive principle in return for retaining overall control over the breakaway league, sanctioned the Premiership. Twenty clubs were now at liberty to gorge themselves on television takings. Enter, stage right, Rupert Murdoch. His Sky television company was losing money but he knew that football had the potential to bring in more viewers - and eventually through a pay-per-view scheme - millions in profit. Dyke at ITV offered the "premier clubs" ?262 million for television rights. Through his ally, Alan Sugar, Murdoch learnt of this bid and immediately phoned through a ?305 million bid, leaving Dyke, the architect of the breakaway, floundering. And so, the "whole new ball game" was born. When the contract was re-negotiated in 1997 Murdoch - who by now was raking in ?1.3 billion in virtually tax-free profit from his sports channel - wasted his competitors by offering the Premiership clubs ?670 million in takings in exchange for exclusive television rights. The road to mega-rich clubs was opened. A handful of them could now use their wealth to corner the market in transfers and, via guaranteed regular television coverage, garner mass passive support willing to purchase club merchandise to wear while they sit in front of the telly eating Pringles and drinking beer from whichever brewery is sponsoring the competition. A monopoly, in other words. Meanwhile, community-based sport - the source of talent and grassroots club support - rots as local councils close sports centres, sell off playing fields and cut leisure budgets. No matter, though, you can pay to watch matches, fantasise about your two-bit team joining the European Super League and even save up for two months in order to afford to take yourself or your family to see the odd live game in the plush new stadia. For the countless workers who enjoy football none of these developments will deter us from watching and enjoying Euro 2000. We will eagerly await 12 August (because its the start of the new season - football, not grouse shooting!). But for the class conscious among us the main worry will not be whether or not it kicks off between England and Germany fans, but whether or not we will be able to afford to stay regular supporters a few years down the road. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 19826 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poseidon at eircom.net Thu Jun 15 09:28:09 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:28:09 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Hitler Message-ID: <000001bfd709$31cc18c0$66fe869f@a> Does anybody know whether Kershaw's book on Hitler and Robert Service's new book on Lenin are worth adding to my library. George -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4357 bytes Desc: not available URL: From malecki at mail.bip.net Thu Jun 15 23:55:23 2000 From: malecki at mail.bip.net (Bob Malecki) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:55:23 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Is Gerry Levi here? References: <000001bfd709$31cc18c0$66fe869f@a> Message-ID: <000101bfd758$66d82b40$9e37fea9@malecki> Gerry if you are still around could you drop me and Email privately. Got something to say and ask you about.. Warm regards Bob Malecki -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jones118 at lineone.net Fri Jun 16 13:05:01 2000 From: jones118 at lineone.net (Mark Jones) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:05:01 +0100 Subject: M-TH: FW: Brits win race to decode human genome: Venter admits defeat Message-ID: <004e01bfd7c5$c590e600$9b238cd4@mjones> As predicted last week on the CrashList, Britain's Sanger Centre for genome research, based in Cambridge, has won the race to decode the human 'book of life'. Commentators are calling it the greatest step in human understanding since Tycho Brahe's observations of planetary movements led to the heliocentric model of the universe. The struggle between British publicly-funded science and US GE monopolies has assumed intense ideological proportions. The struggle to decode the human genome became a race between American GE firm Celera, and British publicly-funded science, with its commitment to open access to genomic code and rejection of the privatisation of human genes. According to agreements announced today, the preliminary 'First Draft' of the 'Book of Life' will be jointly published by the Sanger Centre and Celera; Venter has abandoned the race and is to concentrate on follow-up research. The human genome will not be privatised. Mark Jones http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From malecki at mail.bip.net Sat Jun 17 05:23:35 2000 From: malecki at mail.bip.net (Bob Malecki) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:23:35 +0200 Subject: M-TH: Five Years Old! Message-ID: <000001bfd855$defe70e0$14f3143e@zelda> Cockroach! is proud to say that it is five years old today! In the last five years over 150 issues of Cockroach have been on line and quite a number of "Extra" and "Special" numbers. Now I have also indexed all the back issues and made available on line the collectted works (almost) of this Ezine for poor and working class people. Almost means that the first 24 issues of Cockroach were unfortunately destroyed in a fire. Anyhow all the rest of the issues can now be downloaded at my homepage. Just push on the button "Cockroach!, the collected Works Almost". Naturally the index for Cockroach! can also be downloaded. Just push on the button "index for Cockroach!". Below is the story of how the idea of producing this Ezine came about. Warm Regards Bob Malecki ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COCKROACHES! When I was a kid growing up in New York City, I met my first cockroach. In fact I met millions of them. If I were to get up in the middle of the night to get a glass of water or go to the bathroom the cockroaches were there. For example, arriving at the bathroom to take a leak. I would turn on the light and thousands of cockroaches on the ceiling and walls would run for cover. Even here in Sweden their is a word for cockroach, (Kackel?cka), so obviously the cockroach is and international bug! However I have not seen one cockroach in my 23 years of exile here. However, in New York City, the struggle to exterminate the cockroach has been going on for a very long time. I remember so well the struggle. In our apartment we would spray poison two or three times a year. Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of cockroaches would die in these attacks. Some would survive and move up into the apartment over our heads. Then the people in that apartment would try and exterminate them. The same thing would happen. Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands would die. Then the cockroaches would move up to the next apartment. When the cockroaches got to the apartment nearest the roof of the apartment house. The same procedure described above would take place. Then the cockroaches started their long trip down again and end up in our apartment! Then this stuff would start all over again. The struggle to exterminate the cockroach has probably been going on for centuries.It is probably still going on today. Perhaps the only difference being that the cockroaches have gotten a little smarter and have become more resistant to the pesticides used against them. Today when I am soon to be 53 years old and understand this stuff a whole lot better, I,m beginning to understand that I perhaps have a lot in common with the cockroach! I mean the treatment these bugs have been getting sort of reminds me of what poor and working class people have been getting for centuries. Of course the ruling class both in America and internationally have had much more refined methods of extermination of poor and working class people. But the millions and millions of dead poor and working class people are still a fact. The dead can not carry on the struggle. It is only the survivors, people like me and you, who can do anything about the ruling class trying to wipe us out. Perhaps we can learn something from the cockroaches struggle to survive extermination. If the cockroach was smart, it would of did something about their situation a long time ago. I mean just think if the cockroaches had begun to organise themselves into trade unions or started a newspaper called "Cockroach" claiming that they were going to put and end to people who historically trying to exterminate them.That might have saved a whole lot of lives and suffering for the cockroaches. Well poor and working class people have been trying to organise themselves for a fairly long time now. Unfortunately, just like the cockroaches poor and working class people are devided about the question of : What should be done? Some say I ain,t going to do a god dam thing! Others say, that I am going to make the best of it and fuck everybody else. Some even join the side of the exterminators, while others just want to reform the ruling class into being nice guys or girls! The author of these lines thinks that the struggle against the ruling class (exterminators), is a struggle of poor and working class people against the ruling class.Only one side or the other can win.Because if poor and working class people don't win, they lose! Perhaps poor and working class people can build and alliance with the cockroaches to fight for political power. The cockroaches understand historically what the struggle is about. In America and Sweden, as elsewhere there is a dire need for a new political party. A party which can fight for political power for poor and working class people in their own name. Perhaps we could call it "The cockroach party". Because I think that even the cockroaches understand by this time that it is either them or us! I mean if we want that apple pie dream. Poor and working class people are going to have to organise themselves in order to take the apple pie from those who have got it! Because there isn't anyway else the rich and powerful are going to give it up without a fight. ------------------------------------------------------- Check Out My HomePage where you can, Read or download the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my Crystalball! and "Radiotime"-the Book! Now the Official International Communist League Page! Or Get The Latest Issue of COCKROACH, a zine for poor and working-class people. http://home.bip.net/malecki http://www.algonet.se/~malecki Email Email ------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10247 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Sun Jun 18 10:43:02 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:43:02 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Communism gains acceptance in Japan Message-ID: Communism gains acceptance in Japan Economic problems turn voters away from mainstream parties By Sharon Moshavi, Globe Correspondent, 6/18/2000 TOKYO - Motoki Sobue couldn't hide it anymore. The subterfuge was killing him. So the university student got drunk, telephoned his parents, and shouted out his secret: ''I am a communist!'' Terrified of what might happen next, he slammed down the receiver. But Sobue was shocked by his family's reaction. They weren't angry. ''Later, I went home and explained everything, and now they vote communist, too. Even my grandmother,'' said Sobue, now 25. In Japan these days, being a communist is nothing to be ashamed of. Communism may be out of favor with most of the world as it rushes feverishly to embrace free-market capitalism, but the 78-year-old Japanese Communist Party is gaining popularity in the world's second-largest economy. The party is attracting an increasing number of disaffected Japanese - young voters like Sobue, as well as older ones who are tired of politics as usual. The Communist Party's populist preaching about workers' rights and social welfare is finding an audience in a country suffering from an economic rut that has destroyed financial security for many. Kazuo Shii, a party leader and a second-generation communist, is credited with orchestrating the party's renaissance. Shii, 45, though unprepossessing of appearance with his fleshy face and big glasses, is something of an anomaly among Japanese politicians: He's articulate, even charismatic. He pops up regularly on television, on everything from political round tables to variety shows. He plays the piano, he likes the opera. Most importantly, he has dropped hard-line communist dogma. Some say he doesn't sound much like a communist. ''In our view, communism and socialism are inseparable from democracy,'' he said in a recent interview at the party's four-story headquarters, which will soon be replaced by an 11-story tower. Dressed in an ill-fitting gray pinstripe suit, his black hair slicked down, Shii said the violent overthrow of capitalism does not quite make the party's agenda. Instead he voiced concern about overtime pay for workers, with controlling the country's spiraling debt, and with balancing out Japan's ''subservient'' relationship with the United States. In fact, the Communists may be more in favor of a market economy than the ruling party, which is trying to increase state intervention and state power, said Shigenori Okazaki, a political analyst with Warburg Dillon Reed. ''It sounds rather ironic, but the Communists do see some of the things that the market mechanism can improve for workers,'' Okazaki said. The party's goal at the moment, Shii said, is to reform capitalism. ''We envision a socialist society in the future, but we are not calling for it just now,'' he said. His earliest time frame is about 100 years from now, and even then, it will be more like an evolution than a revolution. In the meantime, ''Just say no'' might well be the Communist Party's motto. As the second-largest opposition party in Japan, it has set itself up as perhaps the loudest opponent of the status quo. No matter the issue, it provides vocal opposition to almost anything the ruling party proposes. That seems to strike a chord with Japanese, even those who don't support the Communists. ''We need a strong opposition, someone who will challenge things,'' said Mieko Yamashita, 58, a retired civil servant. Like many Japanese, though, she doesn't want them to get too strong. ''They make Japanese politics vivid, but I don't think they should ever lead the country,'' she said. Currently, the Japanese Communist Party holds 14 percent of the seats in the Diet. Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori, who dissolved Parliament Friday, has called for elections on June 25, and many analysts expect the Communist Party to do better, but not well enough to significantly change its position. Many are still suspicious of the Communist Party, especially in the business community. They voice worry about the party's growing appeal with frustrated voters. In a recent article in the Mainichi Shimbun, one of Japan's leading newspapers, Toyota's chairman, Hiroshi Okuda, was quoted as saying, ''If they change their name, we had better watch out.'' There has been widespread speculation that the party intends to do exactly that, as analysts agree that it would indeed boost the party's standing. Party officials say they have received many letters from voters suggesting a name change, but Shii insists that the Japanese Communist Party will remain just that. ''We have the history and ideals of our party in this name,'' he said. The party was founded in 1922, and was illegal through World War II. It was one of the sole voices in Japan to speak up against the war, and that legacy earned the party a measure of respect. The Japanese Communists have long steered independent of their counterparts in the Soviet Union and China. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the party issued a statement welcoming the implosion. The Russian model wasn't communism, Shii insists, because it didn't have freedom and democracy. Under Shii, the party has been particularly effective at winning local elections. Almost 4,500 Communist Party members serve as local assembly members. And they can be effective at helping citizens organize. ''If you want to stop a nuclear power plant or something, they help stop it. Nobody else will,'' said Steven R. Reed, a political science professor at Chuo University in Tokyo. The party newspaper, Akahata, has gone from a propaganda sheet to a paper perceived as real. It uncovers scandals and pays attention to stories the normally timid mainstream media does not. The Sunday edition has almost 2 million subscribers. This new face of Japanese Communism is managing to attract younger members in particular. Makoto Abe, 25, got involved with the party several years ago, after it was revealed that HIV-infected blood was knowingly being distributed. ''The government and companies were making light of people's lives to make profits,'' said Abe, who wore a bright orange Denver Broncos T-shirt. He thinks too many people misunderstand communism. Today, working with the party's youth wing, he has come up with his own definition: ''to think of the suffering of the people and find a solution.'' This story ran on page A21 of the Boston Globe on 6/18/2000. ? Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Sun Jun 18 15:29:04 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:29:04 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Workers Action Message-ID: <00a001bfd96c$62444580$bfff869f@a> Does anybody know what group puts out Workers Action? George --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From david.welch at st-edmund-hall.oxford.ac.uk Sun Jun 18 19:49:22 2000 From: david.welch at st-edmund-hall.oxford.ac.uk (David Welch) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 02:49:22 +0100 (BST) Subject: M-TH: Workers Action In-Reply-To: <00a001bfd96c$62444580$bfff869f@a> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, George Pennefather wrote: > Does anybody know what group puts out Workers Action? > There is a group in Britain called Workers Action. I think they were formerly part of the Workers International League before a messy split. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Mon Jun 19 00:18:11 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:18:11 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Workers Action References: Message-ID: <001001bfd9b6$e3948560$9efe869f@a> Thanks David What kind of group are or were the WIL? George ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Welch" To: Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 2:49 AM Subject: Re: M-TH: Workers Action On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, George Pennefather wrote: > Does anybody know what group puts out Workers Action? > There is a group in Britain called Workers Action. I think they were formerly part of the Workers International League before a messy split. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From david.welch at st-edmund-hall.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jun 19 00:39:11 2000 From: david.welch at st-edmund-hall.oxford.ac.uk (David Welch) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:39:11 +0100 (BST) Subject: M-TH: Workers Action In-Reply-To: <001001bfd9b6$e3948560$9efe869f@a> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, George Pennefather wrote: > > What kind of group are or were the WIL? > They were Labour party entrists, affiliated with USec I think. They emerged from the WRP after it broke up. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From cburford at gn.apc.org Mon Jun 19 01:07:15 2000 From: cburford at gn.apc.org (Chris Burford) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:07:15 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Communism gains acceptance in Japan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20000619075735.02dd3e30@pop.gn.apc.org> At 12:43 18/06/00 -0400, you wrote: >Communism gains acceptance in Japan > > Economic problems turn voters away from mainstream parties > > By Sharon Moshavi, Globe Correspondent, 6/18/2000 Interesting article and hopeful, if old prejudices are dying out. But the developments here must be qualified in many ways. They sound similar to the gradual relative rise in respect and acceptability for the Communist Party of Italy. That went hand in hand with developments in Eurocommunism, and also with changes of name. Although the official policy is not to change the name of the CPJ, it is not surprising the question has come up. The article is accompanied by many protestations against anything that may sound like the dictatorship of the proletariat. Ultimately force lies behind much of politics. Tactically and strategically I am sure the CPJ is right not to imply it will be the first to use force. But from this bourgeois report it could be more explicit about how it is going to neutralise the force of the enemy. It appears to be attracting votes as a sort of protest party concentrating on local activism. It sounds the equivalent in English terms of a cross between the Liberal Democrats and Ken Livingstone. Gathering together all the threads of discontent is a strategy which has Lenin's stamp of approval, and they appear to be occupying a viable niche here, but it is not really communism. Or is it? The report is reminiscent of the situation which Marx and Lenin described in the early 1840's in Germany when all different strata called themselves communists. The CPJ seems to be angling for a return to that sort of acceptance. After all Jesus was a communist, and different sorts of communists have surfaced in different social conditions throughout history. How does the CPJ deal with class contradictions, and finance capital? Chris Burford London --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Mon Jun 19 09:43:42 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 11:43:42 -0400 Subject: M-TH: OAS protest in Detroit Message-ID: OAS protest in Detroit Special to the World DETROIT, Mich. * A crowd gathered at Hart Plaza here last week to show support for those protesting against the Organization of American States (OAS) meetings being held across the border in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. About 500 demonstrators marched down Woodward Ave. and joined another 500 gathered at the plaza. More than 4,000 police with mace, dogs and helicopters surrounded the demonstrators. "There are several hundred people here today to show their solidarity with the people throughout the western hemisphere," said Dave Elsila, a member of Newspaper Guild Local 22, "to make sure that any agreement that is signed protects the environment as well as the workers out here," A speaker for the Green Party told the crowd he was committed to non-violence, but at every-day events he sees violence committed by the state powers: city hall and county, state and federal governments. He said the OAS is another effort at globalization. "Globalization is about taking our democratic rights away and giving all to the corporations. It is about a few getting rich while the many suffer poverty." Jason Wade, of Local 58 International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, accused the city leaders of spending over $5 million on police for this event instead of repairing and reopening nine schools that have been closed. "Trade is going to have the effect of harmonizing relations and the problem is do we harmonize them upwards or downwards," said Dan McCarthy, president of UAW Local 417. "Those of the OAS have an agenda for harmonizing things downward. We can't have that. We need high wages and a pro-worker strategy if we are to experience any fairness." --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Mon Jun 19 11:50:14 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:50:14 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Korean summit undercuts 'Star Wars" Message-ID: Korean summit undercuts 'Star Wars' By Tim Wheeler - People's Weekly World The June 12 meeting of the two Korean presidents in Pyongyang, capital of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), was greeted by peace organizations as a step toward ending the 50-year confrontation on the peninsula. The meeting also countered Clinton administration claims that the U.S. needs an anti-missile system to defend against the DPRK, which it brands a "rogue nation." DPRK President Kim Il shook hands with South Korean President Kim Dae Jung during a welcoming ceremony at the Pyongyang airport June 12. Kim Jong Il has unleashed a diplomatic offensive to strengthen the DPRK's relations with countries around the world. He recently visited Beijing. Russian President Vladimir Putin is set to visit Pyongyang this month, rebuffing Clinton Administration attempts to deploy a ballistic missile defense (BMD) in violation of the 1972 ABM Treaty. Joe Volk, executive director of the American Friends Service Committee, said, "This meeting is a very good initiative. What we need on the Korean peninsula is an end to the Cold War through threat reduction, confidence building and identifying areas of cooperation between the north and the south. It might lead to mutual security and in the not too distant future reunification of Korea" He added, "We doubt very much if North Korea poses a real threat to U.S. security that justifies spending billions of dollars for an anti-missile system." Kim Dae Jung served prison terms under successive right-wing regimes in Seoul. A worldwide movement, joined by the DPRK, forced the regime to free him. South Korean trade with the DPRK, which was zero in 1989 reached $333 million in 1999. As of April 7, some 210,000 people from South Korea had visited Mount Kumgang (Diamond Mountain) in the DPRK, among the most beautiful peaks in the world and revered as a symbol of Korean unification. The summit of the "two Kims" comes during a period of agonizing reappraisal of the role of the U.S. in the Korean War. The Pentagon is attempting to discredit an Associated Press report buttressed by eyewitnesses that U.S. soldiers massacred unarmed Koreans whom they had herded under the No Gun Ri bridge. The DPRK's Korean Central News Agency released a report on the history of the Korean War reminding readers that the Pentagon, and Gen. Douglas MacArthur, had schemed to escalate the Korean War into World War III by crossing the Yalu River. The plan was to draw People's China and the Soviet Union into the war and then retaliate with nuclear weapons. I.F. Stone provides massive documentation of this plan in his "Hidden History of the Korean War." Half a century later, the U.S. still deploys 40,000 troops and hundreds of nuclear weapons in South Korea. Mary Day Kent, executive director of the U.S. Section of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (WILPF), told the World that her group favors negotiations to end the Korean War, "which has been going on for decades." The South Korean section of WILPF "is very concerned about human rights issues in South Korea and also about the process of renegotiation of the 'Status of Forces Agreement.' This is an indication that the U.S. plans to maintain its military forces in Korea into the future", she said. We are extremely concerned and opposed to the revival of an anti-ballistic missile proposal, which is both destabilizing and ineffective." Bruce Gagnon, coordinator of the Global Network Against Nuclear Weapons and Power in Space, told the World, "There is a fresh breeze blowing. It runs counter to the claim that North Korea is ready to launch a nuclear attack against the rest of the world." He accused the CIA of attempting to whip up hysteria against North Korea. "They have revised their estimates on how long it would take the North Koreans to develop an intercontinental ballistic missile to justify immediate deployment of Star Wars. This has been a fabrication from the start." President Clinton is under mounting pressure to reject the new version of Star Wars. On June 12, 33 eminent scholars of U.S.-Russian relations sent a letter to Clinton initiated by the Council for a Livable World. "We believe the current plans for the National Missile Defense program may undermine U.S. security and further aggravate U.S. relations with Russia," the letter warned. "We urge you not to endorse deployment at this time." Signers include Timothy Colton and Marshall Goldman, leading Russia scholars at Harvard; Arthur Hartman, former Ambassador to the Soviet Union, and John Steinbruner, an arms control expert. Meanwhile, 46 physicists and engineers, organized by the Union of Concerned Scientists, told Congress that the Star Wars scheme should be shelved. "What's on the books at this point is simply not adequate and never will be," said Lawrence Jones, a physicist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The scientists charged that the Pentagon has deliberately "simplified" tests in hopes of proving that the anti-missile missile can pick out the real incoming missile from thousands of tin-foil decoys. Not one test has succeeded. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us Mon Jun 19 12:02:01 2000 From: CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us (Charles Brown) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:02:01 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Detroit Hunger Strike to Stop Execution of Sankofa Message-ID: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Distributed By: THE PAN-AFRICAN RESEARCH AND DOCUMENTATION CENTER 211 SCB BOX 47, WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY DETROIT, MI 48202-- E MAIL: ac6123 at wayne.edu ====================================================================== ********* Related Web Sites: ************** http://www.cc.utah.edu/~pks1019/tips.html http://www.freemumia.org http://www.gta.gov.zw http://www.cosatu.org.za ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:15:31 +0000 From: apcjerry at earthlink.net Subject: Detroit Hunger Strike to Stop Execution of Sankofa Detroit activists opposed to the June 22 scheduled Texas execution of Shaka Sankofa (Gary Graham) have announced a hunger strike to begin Sunday, June 18. The hunger strikers will announce their plans at several Detroit churches Sunday morning. Beginning Monday they will be outside City County Building from 8:30 am to 5 pm to publicize Shaka's case. A rally will be held at NOON on MONDAY, June 19 and all opponents of the death penalty and against the execution of this innocent man are urged to attend. The hunger strike will continue all week until a mass vigil on Thursday from 5-7 pm the scheduled time of execution. The hunger strike comes after City Council of Detroit voted to call upon George W. Bush to stop this execution. The strikers include Jeff Nelson of Groundwork for a just World, Arnetta Grable of the Coalition to Stop Police Brutality, David Sole, Pres. of UAW Local 2334 and Shirley Sanders, African American community activist. Reach the hunger strikers at 313-680-5508. Your support is needed. =========================================================================== --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Mon Jun 19 12:12:56 2000 From: xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx (Andy L) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:12:56 -0400 Subject: M-TH: My Expulsion from Socialist Caucus Message-ID: <394E6291.333AA5D6@sprint.ca> Following [Sunday]'s Socialist Caucus meeting at the ONDP convention, ONDP Socialist Caucus co-chair Joe Flexer informed me that I've been expelled from the Socialist Caucus, or as he put it "where do you want us to post your resignation from the Socialist Caucus?" What is the process by which one is expelled from the Socialist Caucus you ask? Well, apparantly pissing off Joe seems to be sufficient. Once upon a time I ran the Socialist Caucus website and the SC listserv. In fact, I build the site from scratch putting at least 40 hours of work into it. I decided it would be a good idea to put links on the site to various articles from the left press about the NDP. I was very non-sectarian in doing this, I included links to articles from Socialist Action (I even listed them first) as well as the Freedom Socialist, Socialist Worker, the NDP Left Opposition website and the Socialist which is the newspaper of my group Socialist Alternative. Joe insisted that I remove the link to the Socialist Alternative articles because Socialist Alternative calls for the creation of a new workers' party. A demand with which Joe disagrees (at least publicly). I refused. I asked on what authority could he demand this. He then got Barry and Marcel to join in the demand. I argued since the co-chairs of socialist caucus are only supposed to be spokespeople and that since it's the federal SC steering committee that is supposed to deal with matters of policy that I would only agree to remove the link after a democratic debate and vote by the Steering Committee. They insisted this wasn't necessary. Now, I had volunteered to be on the federal NDP SC Steering Committee at the last federal election and was somewhat dismayed that it had never been consulted. Since the federal steering committee consisted of people from all over the country I could understand why meetings could not be held but I didn't understand why there had been no email list established for committee members and why there had been no consultation whatsoever at any time with the steering committee. After endless arguing with Joe, Barry and Marcel I finally decided I'd had enough and resigned as webmaster and listserv operator. Rather than sabotage the website or simply erase it I sent Marcel the passwords and detailed instructions on how the site is operated. Same with the email listserv. The next day I found myself banned from the listserv. I was told that this was because of my advocacy of a "new workers party" I posted emails on the zoo (predecessor of trillum and mouseland) about the situation. Rather gentle emails actually which avoided criticism as much as possible but which suggested that perhaps this was not really very respectful of free speech or democracy. Other people on the Zoo started a half tongue in cheek, half serious "Justice for the Socialist Caucus One" campaign. Barry, Joe and Marcel were forced to try to defend their position. They didn't put forward a very convincing argument (how could they?) and their statement on the matter was torn to shreds by all and sundry. After a few days of this Joe called me and suggested that we meet. I agreed and we met at a coffee shop. Joe told me that I would be allowed back on to the Socialist Caucus listserv if I signed a letter that stated that I would resign from the Socialist Caucus if I posted any emails to the Socialist Caucus listserv advocating the creation of a new workers' party or if I posted any such emails to any other ndp lists advocating the creation of a new workers' party without also making clear that I was speaking for myself and not the Socialist Caucus. I have a copy of the letter in my files but haven't looked at it since. Anyway, at the time, I looked at the letter and thought that it was completely ridiculous and nothing more but a facile attempt to bully me. But, since I was tired of the whole dispute and thought it was all a waste of time I signed it. Another reason I signed it was since the Socialist Caucus has no "membership" as such (remember, groups can get expelled from the NDP for being a "party within a party") a letter stating that I was resigning from the Socialist Caucus was absolutely meaningless. You can no more "resign" from the Socialist Caucus than you can resign from the human race. (Ok, a bit of an exaggerated comparison but you get the picture.) More recently I've had disputes, heated disputes, with the co-chairs on other issues. My relationship has deteriorated profoundly since I started expressing interest in the Rebuidling the Left conference. When I argued that there should be a Socialist Caucus newspaper, even something as modest as a photocopied magazine in the same format as the ONDY paper, published once or twice a year as a voice of the Socialist Caucus and a forum for debate. Rather than respond to my arguments the co-chairs responded with viscious personal attacks over email. More recently, I asked whether or not the co-chairs were being hypocritical, or opportunistic, by inviting John Clarke to speak. The co-chairs attacked me repeatedly for my views on Rebuilding the Left and then they invite Clarke, an endorser of the conference who is listed as a member of the conference organising committee, to speak. Again, rather than give me an explanation for their reasoning they again replied with viscious personal attack. Fortunately I've saved every email I've received from Marcel, Barry and Joe over the past year so I can prove everything I'm saying just in case they respond by calling me a liar. Anyway at today's Socialist Caucus meeting I quoted declining attendance figures from various key SC events over the past 2 and a half years and (60 at the meeting at the end of the 1998 ONDP convention, 70 at the founding SC conference, 40 at the second SC conference, 28 at [Sunday]'s meeting [I counted the numbers there just before I first spoke which was a few minutes after John Clarke left, there had been a few more people who were there just to hear the Clarke speech]) the failure of SC to accomplish anything at convention (no motions or referrals passed or even voted upon, poor election results with the excpetion of Barry who gave a speech based on his resume without even mention the Socialist Caucus or the word socialist) in order to argue that it was clear that the left was in decline in the NDP and that the Socialist Caucus had limited options if it restricted itself purely to NDP work. I argued that Socialist Caucus should participate in the Rebuilding the Left conference and project in order to be able to pressure the NDP to turn left from both inside *and* outside the NDP as it was clear that the SC tactic of only pressuring the NDP from within was a failure. [I also argued, as I had at the Socialist Caucus meeting during the federal convention in Ottawa that the SC should run for NDP nominations against right wing NDP candidates and even run as SC candidates in general elections in ridings where right wing NDPers have been nominated]. I also moved a motion that co-chairs of the SC should be directly elected. The motion passed. The meeting was adjourned before we could have an election. It was after the meeting that Joe informed me of my "resignation." Last summer during the first of my disputes I ran into Joe at Allan Gardens (during the Safe Park). I accused Joe, in person, of making up the rules for Socialist Caucus arbitrarily as he goes along and changing them as the situation suits him. Rather than dispute this he replied "that's right, the rules are what I say they are." And so goes democracy within the Socialist Caucus. Andy ---------------- Andy L mailto:xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Check out the Socialist Alternative website http://socialistalternative.net Join SALT-L, the Socialist Alternative mailing list: http://socialistalternative.listbot.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From ehrbar at econ.utah.edu Mon Jun 19 22:40:05 2000 From: ehrbar at econ.utah.edu (Hans Ehrbar) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: M-TH: M-INTRO: Trying to Understand Praxis In-Reply-To: <199910190425.EAA19800@lists.village.virginia.edu> (GALEN@pseud.pseud) References: <199910190425.EAA19800@lists.village.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <200006200440.WAA18882@marx.econ.utah.edu> One of the larger lists in marxism space is marxism-intro. It has over 200 s*bscr*bers. It is still hosted by the spoon collective. It is usually silent except when I teach my email class about Marx's Capital (the next one is going to begin in September.) The participants at marxism-intro want to have a discussion. Pseudonym GALEN asked a question which I was unable to answer. It is not exactly intro, but it might be a good start of a discussion. I am appending his question below. If you know an answer, please come over to marxism intro, i.e., send the message subscribe marxism-intro to majordomo at lists.village.virginia.edu and get involved. This list is an excellent opportunity to share some marxist thinking with interested newcomers. BTW, those on marxism-intro who want to get off can follow the same procedure, just use "unsubscribe" instead of "subscribe" Hans Ehrbar. ehrbar at econ.utah.edu Here is GALEN's question about praxis: Hello all, I have been thinking and reading about Marxism(s) lately. Some concepts I get right away, but other concepts take time to understand. At this point I have some questions about a topic that seems deceptively simple, praxis. Perhaps some of you could help me. First, I am wondering what praxis is according to Marx (and where is the discussion located)? Why was it important to him? Was it immediately related to revolution? I am also wondering how the notion of praxis has changed since Marx? That is, are there different kinds of Marxist praxis and what brought about any changes in the concept? And finally, how does praxis relate to the here and now? For example, are teaching, reading, or theorizing praxis? Or when does action become praxis? Thanks, Galen --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From cburford at gn.apc.org Wed Jun 21 01:25:52 2000 From: cburford at gn.apc.org (Chris Burford) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:25:52 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Football and finance capitalisml Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20000621080958.029c8b60@pop.gn.apc.org> If Rupert Murdoch was watching the England game last night, no doubt on one of his Sky TV channels, he must be a confused man. How come the richest league in football, the English, could perform so badly? Especially after he had invested so much money in it? Just as off piste is more exciting in skying, so off pitch in football was the real site of the most dramatic battles. Could national governments spot all known criminals and racists from getting to the football venues, what strength of beer would be available, should cafe's have tables and chairs available facing the main town square, how did the Belgian police team compare with the Dutch police team for pace, coordination and results? Keegan's strategy was to pick the best English players from the league, (not that brilliant) and to try to get them to play together. But they lacked ability to work as a team. In his post-mortem they lacked ability to trust each other to pass the ball. So smaller and poorer countries like Portugal and Romania showed much more overall team ability. These are the fruits of treating individual players as individual atomised commodities, bought and sold between companies backed by finance capitalism for the highest fee. Also in broader Gramscian terms it shows the bankruptcy of Little Englandism as an ideology, with supporters from nations like England, outside European civility, sitting handcuffed in the main town squares continent protesting that allowances should be made for their behaviour because their grandfathers allegedly won the last world war. Finance capital will have to think again where it puts its money. In particular in British politics it will now be subtly important how strongly Murdoch's paper, the Sun, continues to play the card of little England jjingoism, in an attempt to prevent the Labour government from joining the European currency union. Chris Burford London --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Fri Jun 23 17:03:39 2000 From: xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx (Andy L) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:03:39 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Socialist Caucus fallout Message-ID: <3953ECC2.BEAD74E1@sprint.ca> To subscribers of the NDP Socialist Caucus listserv and others: It's come to my attention that the SC co-chairs, Joe Flexer, Barry Weisleder, and Marcel Hatch are claiming that the increased attacks by the right on the SC are a result of the publicity I've given to my expulsion. This is untrue and nothing more but a rather sad attempt by these gentlement to evade responsibility for their own actions. The fact is it is Joe Flexer, Barry and Marcel who put this in the public domain. Joe informed me of my "resignation" on Sunday and told me he was going to post it on the internet. I warned him that if he did so members of the party executive would likely see it and would conclude that the SC had a separate membership and was thus a "party within a party." Joe told me he would take care of this problem. His attempts to do so have failed miserably. To prove that it is in fact Joe Flexer's actions and the statement signed by Joe, Barry and Marcel that have put the SC under scrutiny by the NDP establishment I attach below the response written by Ontario NDP treasurer and senior executive member Tom Parkin to the Flexer,Weisleder, Hatch statement "Andy L and the Socialist Caucus." I've been made aware of the discussion occuring on the NDP Socialist Caucus mailing list. Unfortunately, as moderator Marcel Hatch pre-approves all posts and is disallowing all posts which are critical of the SC leadership or are sympathtetic to my side of the story there is absolutely nothing approaching a free and open discussion on this matter within the Socialist Caucus. A new list, with no pre-screening of posts has been established. To join it please go to http://socialistcaucus.listbot.com or send an e mailto:socialistcaucus-subscribe at listbot.com that's socialistcaucus at listbot.com To see the statement I issued earlier this week, My Explusion from the Socialist Caucus, please go to http://redrival.com/socialist/expuls.html ------------ Subject: Re: [NDP/NPD] Andy L and the Socialist Caucus Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:36:18 -0400 From: Tom Parkin I was unaware that the Socialist Caucus controlled its own membership list. Or is this an appeal from Joe Flexer and Barry Weisleder for the expulsion of Andy L from the New Democratic Party on the basis that he is a supporter of another party? Joe Flexer wrote: > To all New Democrats. > > During a Socialist Caucus meeting at the end of the recent ONDP convention > in Hamilton Andy L. in a speech to the Caucus advocated the > abandonment of the NDP, the creation of a "new workers party" and the > running of candidates in provincial and federal elections against what he > called "right wing NDP candidates". > > Since these positions are contrary to the political basis of unity of the > Socialist Caucus and if put into practice would violate the conditions of > NDP membership Andy has by his own acts removed himself from the Socialist > Caucus. > > Sincerely > > Joe Flexer > Marcel Hatch > Barry Weisleder > Co -Chairs > NDP Socialist Caucus > > > ********************************************************************** > Need help, or more information about Mouseland? > E-mail , or visit . > Usage guidelines are posted periodically to the list, > and are available on the website. > **** > Avez-vous besoin d'aide? D?sirez-vous plus d'amples > renseignements au sujet de Sourisie? Faire votre demande > par courriel, au , ou voir > . Le guide aux usagers est affich? > de temps en temps ? la liste, et il se trouve aussi au site web. > ********************************************************************** --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Fri Jun 23 17:32:43 2000 From: xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx (Andy L) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:32:43 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Defend Democratic Rights in the SC and the NDP Message-ID: <3953F39A.5CD19417@sprint.ca> The following is an email I sent to the NDP list in defence of the rights of the Socialist Caucus as well as the rights of dissenters within the SC: (In response to someone who said in regards to the SC being a "party within a party" "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..." Funny, I recall that Senator Joe McCarthy said exactly the same thing. I'm disturbed by the direction that [you are] taking this discussion. I am arguing for respect for democratic rights and free speech within the Socialist Caucus and some, like Thomas, are leeching on to this to argue for the exact opposite within the NDP. Just as I should not be expelled from the Socialist Caucus for expressing my opinion or challenging its leadership and direction neither should the Socialist Caucus be threatened with sanctions from the NDP for wanting democratic rights and free speech within the Party. What is needed is a political revolution, if you will, within the Socialist Caucus ie a democratization of its internal regime so that it can effectively push for democratization of the NDP as well as a reorientation of NDP policies. The Socialist Caucus cannot do this as long as it is subject to an undemocratic internal regime. This is the problem. I warned Joe Flexer that announcing my "resignation" would have the unintended consequence of raising the whole, bogus, "party within a party" issue but he was confident that he could deal with that. However, Joe's failure to deal with it, by evading the issue rather than taking it head on, does not mean that those who are now opportunistically taking advantage of Flexer's blunder are right to begin a witch-hunt of the Socialist Caucus. Most democratic political parties in the world, the Parti Socialiste in France for example, openly recognise and allow the formation of tendencies and factions within their party. They recognise that this freedom of organization is an essential part of democracy. Why is the NDP so afraid of it? If the Socialist Caucus is a "party within a party" then so is the leadership faction of the NDP which acts in a sometimes secretive way to plan and preplan its moves. Don't tell me there are no informal meetings by the leadership faction prior to executive meetings and other important events in order to plot strategy? There are even factions within the leadership faction. Don't tell me you never heard of the MacKenzie faction and the Lewis faction? The only difference between these factions and the Socialist Caucus is that the Socialist Caucus is not in leadership, is in dissent, and advocates socialist policies which are in the interests of the working class. If you move against the Socialist Caucus it is not because it is a "party within a party" because, as I've pointed out, there are many parties within the NDP. If that's your reason for moving against the SC you'll have to also move against the Lewises and the MacKenzies. No, the real reason you are against the Socialist Caucus is its politics which, rather than being hostile to the NDP are actually the closest thing today to a true expression of the interests of the working class the NDP claims to defend and the closest thing ideologically to the views expressed by the women and men who met in Saskatchewan in 1933 to write the Regina Manifesto. Andy L -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy L mailto:xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Check out the Socialist Alternative website http://socialistalternative.net Join SALT-L, the Socialist Alternative mailing list: http://socialistalternative.listbot.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Fri Jun 23 17:39:55 2000 From: xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx (Andy L) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:39:55 -0400 Subject: M-TH: Defend Democratic Rights in the SC and the NDP Message-ID: <3953F54B.E6138409@sprint.ca> The following is an email I sent to the NDP list in defence of the rights of the Socialist Caucus as well as the rights of dissenters within the SC I have removed the post I am responding to as well as the name of the person who wrote the post, a description of the pertinant part of the original post is in squre brackets: Subject: Re: Defend democratic rights in the NDP and the SC (was Re: [NDP/NPD] Andy L and the Socialist Caucus Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:08:51 -0400 [In response to someone who said in regards to the SC being a "party within a party" "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..."] Funny, I recall that Senator Joe McCarthy said exactly the same thing. I'm disturbed by the direction that [you are] taking this discussion. I am arguing for respect for democratic rights and free speech within the Socialist Caucus and some, like Thomas, are leeching on to this to argue for the exact opposite within the NDP. Just as I should not be expelled from the Socialist Caucus for expressing my opinion or challenging its leadership and direction neither should the Socialist Caucus be threatened with sanctions from the NDP for wanting democratic rights and free speech within the Party or for challenging its direction. What is needed is a political revolution, if you will, within the Socialist Caucus ie a democratization of its internal regime so that it can effectively push for democratization of the NDP as well as a reorientation of NDP policies. The Socialist Caucus cannot do this as long as it is subject to an undemocratic internal regime. This is the problem. I warned Joe Flexer that announcing my "resignation" would have the unintended consequence of raising the whole, bogus, "party within a party" issue but he was confident that he could deal with that. However, Joe's failure to deal with it, by evading the issue rather than taking it head on, does not mean that those who are now opportunistically taking advantage of Flexer's blunder are right to begin a witch-hunt of the Socialist Caucus. Most democratic political parties in the world, the Parti Socialiste in France for example, openly recognise and allow the formation of tendencies and factions within their party. They recognise that this freedom of organization is an essential part of democracy. Why is the NDP so afraid of it? If the Socialist Caucus is a "party within a party" then so is the leadership faction of the NDP which acts in a sometimes secretive way to plan and preplan its moves. Don't tell me there are no informal meetings by the leadership faction prior to executive meetings and other important events in order to plot strategy? There are even factions within the leadership faction. Don't tell me you never heard of the MacKenzie faction and the Lewis faction? The only difference between these factions and the Socialist Caucus is that the Socialist Caucus is not in leadership, is in dissent, and advocates socialist policies which are in the interests of the working class. If you move against the Socialist Caucus it is not because it is a "party within a party" because, as I've pointed out, there are many parties within the NDP. If that's your reason for moving against the SC you'll have to also move against the Lewises and the MacKenzies. No, the real reason you are against the Socialist Caucus is its politics which, rather than being hostile to the NDP are actually the closest thing today to a true expression of the interests of the working class the NDP claims to defend and the closest thing ideologically to the views expressed by the women and men who met in Saskatchewan in 1933 to write the Regina Manifesto. Andy L -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy L mailto:xxxxxxx at xxxxxx.xx Check out the Socialist Alternative website http://socialistalternative.net Join SALT-L, the Socialist Alternative mailing list: http://socialistalternative.listbot.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Sat Jun 24 03:30:59 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:30:59 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Zimbabwe Message-ID: <000401bfde07$0cfce1a0$21ff869f@a> It is clear as to how the Zimbabwe economy is in such a shabby condition. Despite a mineral rich country it suffers tremendous economic problems. The fact that these mineral resources are largely owned by imperialist companies helps explain why the country is so relatively backward. Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From cburford at gn.apc.org Sun Jun 25 05:47:09 2000 From: cburford at gn.apc.org (Chris Burford) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:47:09 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: <000401bfde07$0cfce1a0$21ff869f@a> Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20000625124205.05853bf0@pop.gn.apc.org> At 10:30 24/06/00 +0100, you wrote: >It is clear as to how the Zimbabwe economy is in such a shabby condition. >Despite a mineral rich country it suffers tremendous economic problems. The >fact that these mineral resources are largely owned by imperialist companies >helps explain why the country is so relatively backward. > >Comradely regards >George The high turnout suggests the opposition claims are true that many people are disaffected by the economy, and feel intimidated from expressing their opposition to Zanu publically. However from England I think the main thing is to separate ourselves from the publicity designed to ridicule or demonise the quite reasonable demand of Zanu for a redistribution of the land of the white colonial farmers, who are producing a poisonous cash crop for export dollars. The blame for the state of the Zimbabwean economy should lie on the global financial system rather than on Mugabe. I am doubtful that a win for the MDC will really see progressive change. Chris Burford London --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From jwalker at fs1.li.man.ac.uk Mon Jun 26 05:51:36 2000 From: jwalker at fs1.li.man.ac.uk (J.WALKER) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:51:36 GMT Subject: M-TH: (Fwd) Last Magazine, from the people who brought you LM Message-ID: They're Not Stopping. Last Magazine - I wonder how long they can remain quiet, I doubt Mike Hume will being going into early retirement just yet. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:55:23 +0100 To: BrendanpONeill at hotmail.com (Brendan O'Neill) From: Brendan O'Neill Subject: Last Magazine, from the people who brought you LM Dear friend, As someone who worked on LM magazine before it was closed down by the ITN v LM libel trial, I'm proud to be involved in Last Magazine. Last Magazine is the last word in "libertarian nonsense". It is 124 pages of everything that needs to be said about the timid, terrified, cynical, censorious, undemocratic, dumbed-down, ignorant, inf "LM was sentenced to death by gagging order after just three agenda-setting years", says editor Mick Hume. "But the spirit of LM is alive and kicking against the pricks. There is life after a libel t "Last Magazine will be the shortest-lived title in publishing history. It is a one-off, too good for a culture so intolerant of dissent and offensive opinions. Enjoy it while it lasts." (Memo to lawyers. This is not LM. This is Last Magazine. Any resemblance to publications living or dead is entirely intellectual.) --------------------------------------------------- Last Magazine costs ?7.50 plus postage. To order your copy, phone the credit card hotline on +44 (0) 20 7269 9222 Or email me back for more information. Yours sincerely, Brendan O'Neill --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Mon Jun 26 00:58:06 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:58:06 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Zimbabwe References: <4.3.1.1.20000625124205.05853bf0@pop.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: <000f01bfdfb0$3aa51a00$9bff869f@a> Chris: I am doubtful that a win for the MDC will really see progressive change. George: It would seem to me that the MDC constitutes an alliance that entails the white landlords in Zimbabwe. The MDC has, as I understand it, not come out with any statements or policy supporting land redistribution. The western media has been largely criticial of Mugabe. It has demonised him and presented the situation in such a manipulative way that distorts how the real situation. It has used images both graphic and verbal in order to evoke a visceral antagonism, among the masses, against Mugabe that by bypasses rationality. Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Sun Jun 25 02:28:47 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:28:47 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Cambodia Message-ID: <000f01bfdf35$68148820$17ff869f@a> A report in the NY Times on Cambodia informs us that an undemocratic government which installed itself by means of a coup exists in Cambodia. Yet if we are to judge from the report there is no real criticism of the undemocratic character of the regime despite the staggering poverty that exists there. There seem to be even pretexts offered by the West as to why this kind of regime is justified. This, in my view, is an indication of the Wests hypocrisy concerning its desire to have democratic regimes established in the third world. Clearly it only supports formal demcracy when it suits imperialism's interests. Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Wed Jun 28 01:34:22 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:34:22 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Japan and Marx Message-ID: <000001bfe138$728992a0$a6fe869f@a> There is talk in Japan of hiking up interest rates to flush out the apparently tremendously inefficinet companies that are considered a principal source of the recessionary conditions there. Increasing interest rates is a way of restricting credit. Consequently money grows correspondingly scarcer. As a result of these developments the economy will experience even further contraction and many business may go to the wall. This will tend to create the conditions necessary for a restoration of profitability to levels that will provide the conditions for economic recovery. But despite the popularity today of cynically berating Marx's Kapital any such move to hike up interest rates leads to a contraction of credit and increasing inaccessibility of money even if it happens in a regulated manner. This is just how Marx described the course of the cyclical crisis. As the economy nose dives towards depression the availability of credit drys up and money becomes less accessible. In the case of Japan this same process takes a extended and regulated form. However eventually the state, despite its strength, is forced to observe the law of value and jack up interest rates. At the end of the day the law of value shines through. Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Wed Jun 28 02:27:48 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:27:48 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Mexican elections and the US Message-ID: <000101bfe138$73d01c60$a6fe869f@a> Mexico has been receiving a lot of news recently concerning the forthcoming elections especially in relation to question as to how clean the elections are to be. It is clear that American imperialism and its subalterns are using this question of clean elections as an ideological and political tool with which to smash the PRI. It is in Washington's interests to see the competing right wing party attain power. Such a party will eat into the living standards of the masses at all levels in order to further develop neo-liberal globalism in Mexico. Its neo-liberal global policies would tie inwith Mexico' memebership of NAFTA. There is a lot at stake for American imperialism in these elections. American seeks to maintain and even enhance its present profitability at the expense of the Mexican masses. The rival to the PRI is the party best placed to do it. The right wing National Action Party is American imperialism's subaltern. Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From poseidon at eircom.net Wed Jun 28 02:52:42 2000 From: poseidon at eircom.net (George Pennefather) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:52:42 +0100 Subject: M-TH: Malaky islands and Washington Message-ID: <000201bfe138$74a2aea0$a6fe869f@a> A savage civil war is being waged in the islands of Malaku in Indonesia. Yet, in contrast to the publicity the recent atrocities in East Timor received, the war has been receiving little attention by the West. The West, especially Washington, continuously gives publicity to the unclean nature of the Presidential election campaign in Mexico and demonises Zimbabwe's President Mugabe. Yet more people are being dislocated, brutalised and savagely murdered in the Malaku islands of Indonesia with the connivance of the Indonesian armed forces. Yet it is not the focus of attention for Washington and its subalterns in the mass media. The number of people killed as a result of the so called land invasion pales into insignificance against the butchery that the Indonesian state has been responsible for in the Malaku islands --formerly known as the Spice Islands. This contrast gives the lie to the concerns of Washington regarding its image as crusader of the preservation and advancement of democracy in the world today. Politically it does not suit Washington's imperialist interests to advertise atrocities committed in Indonesia involving the Indonesian armed forces. Comradely regards George Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site at http://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Subscribe to Revcommy Mailing Community at rev-commies-subscribe at eGroups.com --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu --- From cburford at gn.apc.org Wed Jun 28 17:01:06 2000 From: cburford at gn.apc.org (Chris Burford) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:01:06 +0100 Subject: M-TH: e-government Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20000628235853.05796a40@pop.gn.apc.org> Power without guns? The withering away of the state? Extract from article in the Economist below Chris Burford London SURVEY GOVERNMENT AND THE INTERNET IN DOWNTOWN Phoenix, Arizona, people are queuing in a grubby municipal office to renew their car and truck registrations. They are visibly bored and frustrated, but what can they do? All over the world, people dealing with government departments and agencies are having to engage in dreary and time-consuming activities they would much rather avoid. What is unusual about Arizona is that the locals have a choice. Since 1996, a pioneering project called ServiceArizona has allowed them to carry out a growing range of transactions on the web, from ordering personalised number plates to replacing lost ID cards. Instead of having to stand in a queue at the motor vehicle department, they can go online and renew their registrations 24 hours a day, seven days a week, in a transaction that takes an average of two minutes. What is more, ServiceArizona has not cost taxpayers a cent to set up, and is free to users. The website was built and is maintained and hosted by IBM, which is being paid 2% of the value of each transaction?about $4 for each vehicle registration. But because processing an online request costs only $1.60, compared with $6.60 for a counter transaction, the state also saves money. With 15% of renewals now being processed by ServiceArizona, the motor vehicle department saves around $1.7m a year. --- from list marxism-thaxis at lists.econ.utah.edu ---