[A-List] Fwd: Re: Re: [vfp92speak] The weekly Tuesday vigil at the Federal Building -humbug

[Nadja Tesich]

For Todd and others,
 
If they attack Iran,we should be prepared what to do.
I am still hoping it won't happen.
In the past--you knew it by television because they would invent a 
reason.
However,there was no reason for Iraq--they simply invaded.
They could invent that Iran is going to attack Israel.
In any case,I think that they will not be on the ground but will do it by air and  the sea.
 
Nadja
________________________________
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:25:48 -0800
> To: a-list at lists.econ.utah.edu
> From: toddfboyle at gmail.com
> Subject: [A-List] Fwd: Re: Re: [vfp92speak] The weekly Tuesday vigil at
> the Federal Building -humbug
>
> Just a love letter to the VFP, since I quit last November. And a
> reminder of why.
>
> "Support the Troops" has been the main message of Rightwing Talk Radio,
> network TV, the main rallying cry of all pro-war counterprotesters, and
> the number 1 point of all rightwing propaganda since the beginning of
> this war. Just remember *why* that's so important to them: The *only*
> weakness in the Rulers of this country and in global imperialism comes
> when we see thru their lies, and stop "supporting the troops". i.e.
> the institution of the military, AND the individuals who participate in
> it.
>
> There is no other way out of the box. And this is the way out of the
> box. And it's that simple.
> Todd
>
> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:51:26 -0800
> Subject: Re: Re: [vfp92speak] The weekly Tuesday vigil at the Federal
> Building
> -humbug
> From: Malcolm Chaddock
> To: Todd Boyle
> Cc: gs at squadron13.com, Gerry Condon
>
> What are you talking about? You are the one who took his ball and went
> home. Your ideas and ours do not differ by much at all but instead of
> exploring those differences in real dialog you harangue and insult- and
> then you come crawling up to me expecting fair response? The error YOU
> have fallen into is thinking I would receive ANY communication from you
> at this point without telling you to go jump off a bridge!
>
> Your decision to quit VFP has been made; you burned your gear, you
> called my letter disgusting, me a go-along-to-get-along wuss and my
> friend a fake activist and an evil man. You don't get to treat me and
> my friends like shit and then try to make out that it is/was a
> reasonable thing to do.
>
> L8r
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Todd Boyle
> > wrote:
>
> Malcolm,
> Do you yet see the error that you fell into? Following the hard works
> by Dave Kannas, talking and phoning dozens of people to put out his
> spin, it became a story you're regurgitating below. Gerry Conden, the
> pres. of the VFP Chapter also fell into this fallacy-- its called the
> ad-hominem fallacy. It is a fallacy not of the speaker, but of the
> reader or listener---that would be YOU.
>
> The real issue of course, is that the veterans, the military, and
> families of the military are unable to accept the truth that their
> entire military activities have been not only useless, mistaken, etc.
> but morally wrong. So, they go into insane levels of resistance,
> throwing up all kinds of distractions and histrionics, attacking the
> messenger, etc. and NEVER do they accept the real chain of logic,
> which goes like this: every war since at least WW2 has been NOT self
> defence but morally wrong, and the number one people responsible are
> the millions of active duty military who do the bombing, shooting,
> blasting and burning people to death. America of course drinks the
> government propaganda, the past 60 years that the military is noble and
> honorable. The VFP and the peace movement also cannot handle the
> truth, so they say "Oh my goodness, it's not the SOLDIERS' fault, they
> were ignorant--- they were only following orders, they know not what
> they do, etc. " Bullshit. It's their fulltime career occupation, and
> they talk about it in their bars and lunchrooms every single day.
> Even worse are the devious liars who build up all these
> rationalizations for preventive war: the domino theory, the GWOT, the
> constant defamation of Islam, etc.
>
> And in case the US military still pleads ignorance, having avoided
> accountability all these years, effective today, 930am, November 28th,
> 2009 all those reading this email should consider themselves officially
> advised, and informed in case you didn't know: War is Murder if it's
> not self defense, and NONE of the wars since at least WW2 have been
> self defense, and the troops are murderers. The reputation and
> standing of the military is a consequence of its actions, not wishful
> thinking or media propaganda or empty Rituals dictated by the State,
> like veterans day and singing to the Flag. The military is a rot at
> the core of American values and our humanity. They are deeply
> injuring our country psychically and spiritually by their evil and
> immoral activities for which they are paid $billions. Todd
>
> At 01:03 PM 11/25/2009, Malcolm Chaddock wrote:
> Todd-
>
> Since you decided to include me on this thread I figure I will say just
> this: Calling Gerry Condon a fake peace activist all by itself
> demonstrates a lack of perspective which I would urge ANYone to
> address. Considering the other things which followed only reinforced
> that impression I'd be hard put to care who was right and wrong at that
> protest and more concerned for your personal well being. That much
> vitriol can't help but burn a hole in a person's gut and lots of good
> bridges too. I have no stake in what you do or don't do and offer this
> only as someone who wishes to support all who work so hard in this
> thorny, rock strewn garden.
>
> Take it ez man, seriously, or you might go Pop!
> mjc
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Todd Boyle
> > wrote:
>
> Last email...from Emily...
> the end of this ruckus. back to work....
>
> From: emily horswill >
> To: Todd Boyle >
> Subject: Re: [vfp92speak] The weekly Tuesday vigil at the Federal
> Building -humbug
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:44:15 -0800
> I saw his sign that read "War is murder." So he says, "it's a matter
> of who you believe." Are you ready to say he is the one of the 3 who
> lied? They are interrupting that anyone who says "war is Murder" means
> their GI kids are murderers. It's common. In articles I have written
> its been done again and again. Igot plastered with mud for the same
> thing. That war is murder is a new idea to them. I'd corner them and
> ask them who talked first.I am willing to bet they did. Do you think
> Todd looked them up and said, "My sign means that your sons, if you
> have any, are murderers? Did Todd know they had sons that are
> presently in Iraq fighting? If these are new members, I don't need
> them. If they have sons fighting and are backing them they don't
> belong in vip unless they change in a hurry. Not f that's the way they
> think. True Todd may be extreme, but I don't think he looked them up
> carrying his sign and said "My sign means your kids, if you have any,
> are murderers." em
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:02 PM, Todd Boyle wrote:
>
> In fact, don't bother to answer, this is the LAST INSULT
> I will put up with from the so called "Veterans for Peace".
> I am making big pile of VFP CRAP in my yard
> -- your Pinnies,
> -- your VFP Placards
> -- buttons, "Rachel Corrie Brigade" 'VFP Chapter 92" all that crap,
> -- your VFP Newsletters and CRAP
> You guys are worse than useless.
> I'm making a little fire out there tonight, and burn it all up
> except for the Overpass signs 4x6 feet I painte myself,
> I am chopping those up with a box cutter for the sake of the
> environment
> Todd
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:40:30 -0800
> To: Gerry Condon <
> projectsafehaven at hotmail.com>
> From: Todd Boyle >
> Subject: RE: [vfp92speak] The weekly Tuesday vigil at the Federal
> Building -humbug
> Cc: vfp92speak at lists.riseup.net
> At 04:25 PM 11/24/2009, Gerry Condon wrote:
>
> It is one thing to hold a sign that says "War Is Murder," Todd.
> It is a whole nuther thing to tell Joe Colgan and Dave Kannas that
> GI's - including their sons - are therefore "murderers."
> That's what they told me you said.
> You're listening to a one sided story, get a brain.
> I stood there with my antiwar sign
> Some guy (Dave Kannas, the latest agent provocateur, joining VFP
> 2007) came up to me, foaming at the mouth asking me HEY YOU
> ASSHOLE, ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE TROOPS ARE MURDERERS?
> For the next 2 hours, Dave literally accosted every person who
> would listen, including most of the assembled protesters, to tell
> them his interpretation of my sign, RECHARACTERIZING my message to
> something that is NOT on my sign.
> My sign said WAR IS MURDER
> in 10 inch overpass-sized letters. Read my lips. War is murder.
> Got a problem with that?
> Talk about the substance of the question.
> Get a brain Gerry
> Todd
>
>
>
> --
> ["There are means that cannot be excused. And I should like to be able
> to love my country and still love justice. I don't want any greatness
> for it, particularly a greatness born of blood and falsehood. I want to
> keep it alive by keeping justice alive. You retorted: "Well, you don't
> love our country."... No, I don't love my country, if pointing out what
> is unjust in what we love amounts to not loving, if insisting that what
> we love should measure up to the finest image we have of her amounts to
> not loving...if at times we seemed to prefer justice to our country,
> this is because we simply wanted to love our country in justice, as we
> wanted to love her in truth and in hope. This is what separated us
> from you; we made demands. You were satisfied to serve the power of
> your nation and we dreamed of giving ours her truth...." A
> Camus-Letters to A German Friend]
>
>
>
>
> --
> ["There are means that cannot be excused. And I should like to be able
> to love my country and still love justice. I don't want any greatness
> for it, particularly a greatness born of blood and falsehood. I want to
> keep it alive by keeping justice alive. You retorted: "Well, you don't
> love our country."... No, I don't love my country, if pointing out what
> is unjust in what we love amounts to not loving, if insisting that what
> we love should measure up to the finest image we have of her amounts to
> not loving...if at times we seemed to prefer justice to our country,
> this is because we simply wanted to love our country in justice, as we
> wanted to love her in truth and in hope. This is what separated us
> from you; we made demands. You were satisfied to serve the power of
> your nation and we dreamed of giving ours her truth...." A
> Camus-Letters to A German Friend]