[A-List] Fwd: [R-G] The Fate of America's Justice System
nadjatesich at hotmail.com
Tue Aug 3 12:33:56 MDT 2010
I believed that I had it bad by this country but it seems that
you had it worse.
You are brilliant and brave and you will fight
to the bitter end.
Let me ask you since I don't know any details:
Why could not your sons come and see you?
Why could not you come and see them?
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:14:21 +0200
> From: suzannedk at gmail.com
> To: a-list at lists.econ.utah.edu
> Subject: [A-List] Fwd: [R-G] The Fate of America's Justice System
> This is rivitingly interesting to me, an American/Netherland citizen
> since birth and have been a Muslim convert since 2001, only registered
> as such in 2010 as have been so terrified of my own American
> Governemnt since those many months of the repeated videos of the
> gunpowder collapsed Twin Towers. Instinctively at that time I
> realized we of the world were being flim-flammed, with power to back
> it up being made up as they went along, like Patriot Acts, the U.S.
> Military Commissions Act of 2006, all the Surveillance Acts, Torture
> and Rendition Laws, Authorised bank theft, authorised assasinations,
> you name it, the 9/11 was an opporrunity for America to become an iron
> fisted facist state, and, it did. No-one expected it. The American
> Government has been attempting to take over our small gemlike 400 year
> old Dutch firm since end of WW11 and are in the end stages to do so.
> I stand in the way, the last one. My name is famous here. They have
> been having a good time figuring out how to get rid of me in my home
> country of Holland of which am also a citizen since birth. If I still
> lived in the U.S., having been separated from my sons when I was a
> Yale student by harassment, it would be easy to eliminate me after
> making sure I get quite ill and alone. The alone was started.
> I finally registered Islamic, something I had been commited to do
> since I did Shahada in Boston 9 years ago. I will never return to the
> U.S.A.. My life is not safe there. Nor is that of my sons but there
> seems to be nothing I can yet do to convince them, one 48 years, the
> other 50 years. But always my home here is theirs. I will never
> renounce my U.S. citizenship ever. What will the Feds do?
> I write of present politics, well. The one thing they expected would
> be easy to effect, that I do not exist, is not, here. Becomes a bit
> embaressing. I know what is behind the smoke and the mirrors and
> write from that. Makes it even more difficult to erase me.
> The lawlessness of America has been in growing evidence since 9/11,
> the opportunity tiime for the flowering of 21 Century Medici
> Electronic age......New erasing chemicals are being developed and
> used, untold numbers. The nuclear tipped bombs dropped on Fallujah to
> silence it cannot be used in Europe so other techniques are developed.
> F1N1 Flue anyone? Individual targeting uses other skills, personal.
> Drugs have been tryed but there is a history here of autopsies,
> although seldom done now. When my father died (he was poisoned) such
> an autopsy law was in effect. He was cremated.
> Being of the most priveleged of both the U.S and of Netherland
> families and social levels I present an opportunity for intelligence
> agencies (uncounted in number) to work out how to make me not exist
> in both countries. My sons will present a problem for them later but
> if they remain in the U.S. that should be easy when they are really
> Now this case makes the choice morsle for such Federal Preditors as to
> be yummy "She's Muslim" "She criticises us in e-print!"
> Trouble is, I am the corporate name they want to own completely. The
> story is getting around in Holland, not by Facebook or Twitter, by
> word of mouth.
> My embracing the religeon I most respect and trust is not small.
> Those of my class are punished by other Netherlanders for converting.
> But I know to what incredible evil normal everyday people will go and
> there are those Dutch who will feed the flames and laugh with
> pleasure. Hitler was a Germanic man, 60% of us in Holland are of
> Germanic roots and were never outted after WW11 as happened in
> Germany. Happily for the warmongers in the US who have been pushing
> us around since the end of WW11, angry now we are leaving Afganistan.
> Where does this young man's case leave me? All the situations
> careully set up by the Feds have not worked to rid them of me. Using
> made up stories of my essential gross evilnesses they have encouraged
> the Dutch Intelligence to join them. These much I am sure of, do not
> know too much else but that the US C.I.A. and its millions of
> mercenaries do not give up. Again, go back to Fallujah. We who watch
> just happen to live in areas where our existences are assumed more
> valuable...and therefor safer. Are we? The Gulf Coast shouts at
> Although there is much here of personal family it represents an
> example to what lenghts will be gone to to remake reality to the
> federally approved, illuminating the situation that began this
> discussion by me, the young man who faced a good life and from joining
> a religion of choice he will be denied probably any life, which
> illustrates where the rule of law is in the US, no longer there. Will
> this be attempted with me? The corporate name will wilt, decidedly.
> Not cool. What is the importance of, in, a name? Read what
> Shakespeare wrote of it, do. It is in the To Be or Not To Be Speech
> play. Means your ame too.
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mark E. Smith
> Date: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [R-G] The Fate of America's Justice System
> To: Suzanne de Kuyper
> *The U.S. Does Not Have and Never Had a Justice System*
> by Mark E. Smith
> The United States has a system of laws. There's an old story about a law
> professor who was asked a question about justice by a student. He told the
> class to go outside and look at the building they were in, so that they
> could see that it said, "School of Law," rather than 'School of Justice."
> Rather than a Supreme Court, Venezuela has a Supreme Council of Justice.
> *Article 257 of the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
> *Procedure represents a fundamental instrument for the administration of
> justice. Procedural laws shall provide for the simplification, uniformity
> and efficiency of legal formalities, and shall adopt expeditious, oral and
> public procedures. Justice shall not be sacrificed because of the omission
> of nonessential formalities.*
> *Contrast that with the United States where the Supreme Court has found that
> factual innocence can be irrelevant in a death penalty case where all proper
> procedures were followed in sentencing an innocent person to death.*
> *Anyone who has actually read our Constitution would know that it did not
> establish a democratic form of government. We do not have a democracy or a
> democratic republic. In a democracy, supreme power is vested in the people,
> not in a supreme tyrant, supreme monarch, supreme deity, or supreme court
> with the Divine Right of Kings to make decisions which cannot be appealed.
> In a republic the people still hold supreme power, but exercise it through
> their elected representatives. Since the Constitution did not give us any
> way to hold our elected representatives accountable during their terms of
> office, which is the only time that they hold power and are supposed to
> represent us, we cannot exercise our will through them, we can only petition
> them in the way that subjects can petition any tyrant, and if they ignore
> our petitions, once their terms are up we can attempt to replace them with
> different tyrants who also cannot be held accountable during their terms of
> *We have a system of laws, not a system of justice. Prof. Davidson, if he
> claims any expertise, should know that, and is being disingenuous and
> misleading by inferring otherwise.*
> *As for Mr. Knaeble, he should have investigated what sort of country this
> was before he signed up to fight for it. Those who support tyranny, fascism,
> and imperialism when they are the ones benefiting from it, shouldn't act
> surprised when it turns on them and they become its victims. *
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Sid Shniad wrote:
> > 8-1-10
> > *
> > The Fate of America’s Justice System – An Analysis*
> > By Professor Lawrence Davidson
> > On July 28, 2010 there appeared an important and tragic story on CNN.com.
> > Its title is "U.S. Army Veteran in Columbia Feels Like He is Caught in a
> > No-Fly Trap." It is the story of a 29 year old U.S. citizen by the name of
> > Raymond Earl Knaeble. Knaeble had been working in Kuwait since 2006 for ITT
> > systems, inc. In 2008 he converted to Islam and set up a web site devoted
> > to
> > correcting misunderstandings about the religion among English speakers. He
> > sought to demonstrate that Islam is a religion of peace. Recently he flew
> > from Kuwait to Bogota Columbia in order to join his fiancé. He then
> > attempted to fly to the U.S. in order to take a physical exam prior to
> > beginning a new job with ITT in Qatar. At that point he was barred from
> > boarding the airplane. It has been all downhill from there. Knaeble’s job
> > offer was withdrawn and he ended up stranded and penniless in Columbia.
> > When
> > he asked the authorities why this was happening to him no one would tell
> > him. However, it is obvious that the FBI has placed his name on its
> > notorious no-fly list. That is how he became the American equivalent of
> > Kafka’s Josef K in the Trial.
> > This tragedy raises many questions about the present status of American
> > justice system, the marching orders of our bureaucracies, particularly the
> > FBI, and just what is the worth of being an American citizen in 2010? Ever
> > since the attacks of 9/11 there has been a serious erosion of our standards
> > of justice. Indeed, there seems little doubt that the national government
> > has taken it upon itself to selectively violate its own Constitution and
> > laws. Thus, the government’s assertion that it can hold American citizens
> > and residents indefinitely without showing cause has undermined habeas
> > corpus. The arbitrary assertion that it can listen in on lawyer-client
> > discussions spells the death of that long standing and necessary privilege.
> > And the practice of kidnaping and torture of individuals worldwide has
> > placed the United States in the position of being a great power running of
> > a
> > world-wide terrorist operation. Allegedly, this last practice has been
> > suspended.
> > It is through the practice of such policies, among others, that the
> > marching
> > orders given by Congress and the Executive to the government’s "law
> > enforcement" and "intelligence" agencies have been transformed. This has
> > been accomplished by an apparent nod of approval given to the latent
> > lawlessness inherent in all such bureaucracies. This might sound confusing,
> > but the truth is that such agencies have two sets of rules that are not
> > perfectly aligned. One set is the laws of the land that the bureaucrats and
> > agents are suppose to enforce and uphold. These laws are to apply to the
> > actions of the agencies just like they apply to the behaviors of ordinary
> > citizens. The other set is the package of internal customary rules of
> > operation that are part of the culture of the bureaucracies themselves.
> > These are shaped by years of practice and may well allow or even encourage
> > the cutting of legal corners in the order to perform the agencies’ missions
> > in the most "effective" manner. There is a standing tension between the two
> > sets of rules but, under normal conditions, the rule of law should prevail.
> > When it does not, one gets investigation and scandal. People often lose
> > their jobs as a result. However, after 9/11, it seems that there was a
> > purposeful turning of a blind eye when it came to the actions of agencies
> > such as the FBI and CIA. All of a sudden the government as a whole seem to
> > adopt an unspoken position that the law should get out of the way of the
> > mission. The Bush Justice Department began this corrupting practice and the
> > Obama administration has taken up the precedent.
> > As a consequence we can seriously ask the question, what is the worth of US
> > citizenship under present conditions? Well, for Raymond Earl Knaeble, the
> > answer is it is worth little or nothing. In fact he would be much better
> > off
> > being the citizen of some other country. And he is not alone, for U.S.
> > citizens with close ties to the Muslim world are all at risk. Arab
> > Americans
> > and Muslim Americans are now having to fight continuously for their basic
> > rights as Americans. These members of our communities, as well as their
> > supporters, are constantly plagued by bigots, hostile special interests,
> > and
> > what appears to be lawless bureaucrats working in agencies ranging from
> > local sheriffs offices to the Department of Immigration and Customs
> > Enforcement, to FBI, and even to the State Department. Things have gotten
> > so
> > bad that the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has issued a
> > travelers alert on their web site warning Muslim Americans of the risk of
> > "forced exile" when traveling overseas. And here is another, personal
> > warning– those who travel to Israel-Palestine and end up harassed by
> > Israeli
> > soldiers while visiting the Occupied Territories should know that they will
> > find little or no sympathy, much less assistance, from U.S. counselor
> > officials.
> > According to the Social Contract theory of government put forth by John
> > Locke (1632-1704), the government is created to guarantee the rights of the
> > citizens. The citizens, in turn, are obligated to support their government
> > by, among other things, the payment of taxes and their loyalty, as long as
> > those guarantees are maintained. That is why Locke describes the
> > relationship between citizens and their government as a contract. Since
> > Locke’s day citizens’ rights have been extended beyond life, liberty and
> > property to include, in the case of the U.S., all those rights and
> > privileges enumerated in the Constitution. This list of rights is among the
> > dwindling American attributes still admired worldwide. Finally, Locke is
> > pretty explicit about what can happen if the government, by acting in
> > violation of its own laws and constitution, breaks the contract. It seems
> > to
> > me that since 9/11, at least parts of the U.S. government have been
> > operating on or beyond the line of lawlessness.
> > Lets finish up with the same example we began with, that of Mr. Knaeble. He
> > is not someone who has inadvertently fallen through the cracks. He is not
> > like the main character in the story "A Man Without a Country" who cursed
> > the United States and obviously wished the nation ill. Not at all. He is a
> > victim of the lawless practices of a U.S. police agency. In order to
> > perform
> > the mission of "fending off all possible threats to the U.S." Raymon
> > Knaeble, and many more like him, have been sacrificed. This is the only
> > conclusion that one can draw because the FBI appears to be under no
> > obligation, and thus unwilling, to provide any evidence, any cause, for
> > acting the way it does. We are just asked to trust the bureaucrats when
> > they
> > claim to know something that we do not, and therefore accept that they can
> > ruin this man’s life with impunity. Obviously, someone has told the FBI
> > that
> > it can behave like the KGB.
> > That is where we stand and it is a serious problem for all of us.
> > Democratic
> > governments should not function as enemies of their own laws. But they do
> > so
> > when they run so scared that the law is sacrificed to an impossible search
> > for perfect security. Tip O’Neil, the famous and humorous Speaker of the
> > House of Representatives (1977 to 1987) use to walk around with small copy
> > of the Constitution in his pocket. He was serious about that document. One
> > wonders how many of his successors have even read the document. Tip O’Neil
> > is dead now. Let’s hope he did not take the Constitution with him to the
> > grave.
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