[A-List] The true aim of torture

[Tony B.]

I would agree...Traditionally, torture has almost never been about 'getting 
information', but rather in demonstrating - and simply expressing - power. 
And what's the point of having power if one can't exercise it in extremus, 
i.e. sadism.

Still, I found it interesting (i.e. I hadn't thought of it) that in the case 
of Bush & Co. an actual functional element might have been involved (i.e. 
rationalizing and exculpating the attack on Iraq).

I'm not sure what to think of Margaret's suggestion that the torture 
revelations were a form of reverse dis-information. I would say that here 
you're getting on to pretty tenuous ground (i.e. 'I figured that if they 
figured that I was figuring' ...etc).....It is, of course, worth 
considering, but I'd need something a mite more substantive to convince me 
of such.

Tony



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Wright" <pwright at prisonlegalnews.org>
To: "'The A-List'" <a-list at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: [A-List] The true aim of torture


I would say torture is about showing people who's boss and who has impunity.
That is the true nature of its "effectiveness". Anyone taken to Guantanamo
knows what awaits them and they are beyond all rescue. That is true power.

Torture is nothing new. My magazine reports it all the time right here in
the US but because the victims are "criminals" most people are okay with it.
In any event, torture has a long US pedigree:
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/21211_displayArticle.aspx


Paul Wright, Editor
Prison Legal News
P.O. Box 2420
West Brattleboro, VT 05303
802-257-1342
pwright at prisonlegalnews.org
www.prisonlegalnews.org

Seattle Office:
2400 NW 80th St. # 148
Seattle, WA 98117
206-246-1022


-----Original Message-----
From: a-list-bounces at lists.econ.utah.edu
[mailto:a-list-bounces at lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of MARGARET WYLES
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 1:39 AM
To: The A-List
Subject: Re: [A-List] The true aim of torture

Tony,

I think the true aim of torture is explained by a former torturer as
follows:

"At the prison where I conducted interrogations," Alexander said, "we
heard day in and day out, foreign fighters who had been captured state
that the number one reason that they had come to fight in Iraq was
because of torture and abuse, what had happened at Guantanamo Bay and
Abu Ghraib."

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/26/military-interrogator-torture-america
n-lives/

One can't have an endless war on terror without an endless stream of
new enemy combatants.  So was Seymour Hirsch a witting or unwitting
accomplice when he 'exposed' Abu Ghraib?  Why were so many pictures
taken?  How did they get out into the public?  An acquaintance of mine
was at the Highway to Hell in the first Iraq.  He took photos.  They
got confiscated.  Some thing about this Abu Ghraib expose never made
sense to me, unless, of course, the intent was to incite.

M