[A-List] [addendum] CIA Director nominee Leon Panetta: No Torture... NoExceptions
the.buffalo.in.the.midst at gmail.com
Wed Jan 7 07:50:30 MST 2009
George W. Bush is a 'Shill', in case it hasn't been noted here yet.
Leigh Meyers wrote:
> Paul Wright wrote:
> "If Panetta were to stop the CIA from torturing people he won't keep
> the job."
> That's what's gonna happen.... But it'll be fun to watch, and if the
> media plays it right (snicker), quite informational for the US public
> in re THEIR role in all this and the world.
> Leon Panetta is an anachronism in American politics.
> The Panetta Institute is NO School of the Americas. ...and in my
> estimation, speaking of politics as a 'hustle, he's a 'clinker'(Slang,
> A sour note in a performance... "hit a clinker"), not the 'shill'.
>> When is the mythical time period when the US did not engage in wholesale
>> torture and murder? The nation is founded on genocide. About 20 miles
>> where I live is Turners Falls in Massachusetts. It is named after
>> Turner who in the 1600s massacred over 100 naitve Americans and the
>> survivors were thrown over the water falls which bear his name.
>> For an excellent history of the role of the US in training death
>> squads and
>> military regimes in murder and torture see A.J. Languth's book Hidden
>> Terrors. Remember the Central American wars and every couple of years
>> media would "discover" yet another CIA torture or assassination manual?
>> Need we remember the Phoenix Program and the tiger cages of Viet Nam?
>> Torture is an American institution that is as American as the proverbial
>> apple pie. This is how counterinsurgency wars are fought and won and
>> been for centuries. Governments use torture because it is surprisingl
>> effective at eliciting information and more importantly, at showing
>> who is boss and who is running the show.
>> Prison Legal News, the magazine I edit reports in every issue on the
>> and brutalization of American prisoners. Nothing has been reported from
>> Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib that I do not report happening here in the
>> US on a
>> regular basis. The difference is that when the victims are social
>> or poor criminals, no one cares.
>> If Panetta were to stop the CIA from torturing people he won't keep
>> the job.
>> And what to do with all the torturers on payroll? A mundane point, but
>> torture remains illegal. The only problem is one of impunity, not
>> And nary a bleat from the Obama crew about prosecuting torturers.
>> Paul Wright, Editor
>> Prison Legal News
>> P.O. Box 2420
>> West Brattleboro, VT 05303
>> pwright at prisonlegalnews.org
>> Seattle Office:
>> 2400 NW 80th St. # 148
>> Seattle, WA 98117
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: a-list-bounces at lists.econ.utah.edu
>> [mailto:a-list-bounces at lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Leighm
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:17 PM
>> To: The A-List
>> Subject: [A-List] CIA Director nominee Leon Panetta: No Torture...
>> As I was saying earlier:
>> "According to the latest polls, two-thirds of the American public
>> believes that torturing suspected terrorists to gain important
>> information is justified in some circumstances. How did we transform
>> from champions of human dignity and individual rights into a nation
>> of armchair torturers? One word: fear.
>> Fear is blinding, hateful, and vengeful. It makes the end justify the
>> means. And why not? If torture can stop the next terrorist attack,
>> the next suicide bomber, then what's wrong with a little
>> waterboarding or electric shock?
>> The simple answer is the rule of law. Our Constitution defines the
>> rules that guide our nation. It was drafted by those who looked
>> around the world of the eighteenth century and saw persecution,
>> torture, and other crimes against humanity and believed that America
>> could be better than that. This new nation would recognize that every
>> individual has an inherent right to personal dignity, to justice, to
>> freedom from cruel and unusual punishment.
>> We have preached these values to the world. We have made clear that
>> there are certain lines Americans will not cross because we respect
>> the dignity of every human being. That pledge was written into the
>> oath of office given to every president, "to preserve, protect, and
>> defend the Constitution." It's what is supposed to make our leaders
>> different from every tyrant, dictator, or despot. We are sworn to
>> govern by the rule of law, not by brute force.
>> We cannot simply suspend these beliefs in the name of national
>> security. Those who support torture may believe that we can abuse
>> captives in certain select circumstances and still be true to our
>> values. But that is a false compromise. We either believe in the
>> dignity of the individual, the rule of law, and the prohibition of
>> cruel and unusual punishment, or we don't. There is no middle ground.
>> We cannot and we must not use torture under any circumstances. We are
>> better than that."
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